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Skill Suggestion Thread

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Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:11 am

Do you have ideas for skills with no specific hero to attach them to? Or do you have an idea for a skill for a particular idea for a skill/skill change for a hero, but only that? Then post it here!



An innate for an Eldar hero: Fleet of Foot:
[Effect] While active, your movement speed increases dramatically, but your chance to hit decreases dramatically. This would be a toggle.


A cool idea for a skill, but I have no idea who would have it (Maybe the Necron vehicle (It's still a Necron attached to a skiff, so it could work as a hero) that's in DoW that takes over other vehicles? He's not in the TT though apparently...):

Temporarily switch characters with the target. You keep your HP and mana, and if you die with the opponent's hero, you still take the death, and vice versa. Cooldowns should be set to what they were when your opponent lost control if possible (so as to not switch just to use someone else's nuke.). Also, you should probably keep your own items.


Edits:

Not sure who would get this skill, or if it's even codeable, but giving someone a skill that 'confuses' the target, either by forcing their attacks to hit random targets a certain % of the time (If you guys ever played PvP in City of Heroes, I'm thinking of essentially what confuse does in there.), regardless of who you target, for a short period of time, OR, and I honestly doubt this would be codeable, scramble all the hotkeys icons for a certain period of time so they have a different effect.


A few more ideas I got:

-This skill would go to an illusion based support hero (probably int, and possibly the Tau Ethreal? Need to check the codex.):
Make an illusion of the target. The illusions act much like Lelith's (Only they affect a targeted unit, ally or enemy), but every illusion has 1 single skill which makes the initial target (The one cloned) take it's place if within a certain range of the illusion.

-An ultimate, probably going to the same hero as the previous one:
An Illusion with a passive taunt aura that activates every 1-2 sec appears from the hero. Has a 1 dmg attack and takes 50% of the damage dealt (as opposed to the 300% most illusions take), but otherwise is similar to the hero stat-wise and appearance-wise.
*Lv 1: Runs in a line from the hero to the target location. Will not stop upon reaching location. Duration: 10 s
*Lv 2: Runs to target location, then runs in circles around it. Duration: 15-20 s
*Lv 3: Runs from hero to target location, but is under player control. Duration: 20-30 s

-Another ult idea. The casting hero goes to sleep for 10 secs. During this time, he gains 5-10 HP/s reg, but will not wake if attacked. If he is attacked during his sleep, he will take no damage until he awakens (think Mad Doc ulti).
*Lv 1: 5 HP regen bonus. Take 1x damage upon waking.
*Lv 2: 7.5 HP regen bonus. Take 0.9x damage upon waking.
*Lv 3: 10 HP Regen bonus. Take 0.8x damage upon waking.

-Sorrow: Target is disheartened by the loss of his comrades. For each allied unit that dies within a certain range of the affected hero(s), the hero suffers a attack speed/damage debuff. Heroes debuff for more than creeps. Cannot go debuff more than 70%. This would either be an active skill, or a toggle that affects nearby heroes.

-Chaos Sorc ulti:
When approaching death, the Chaos Sorc is sacrificed to summon the mighty Bloodthirster (or another powerful daemon, I just know he can be used to summon the Bloodthirster, so I'll use him for this.). When below 1-10% HP (to be determined) or upon death, a same leveled Bloodthirster can be summoned from the Chaos Sorc's corpse. It carries the same items, has the same skill levels, and if killed by anything but timed life, counts as a hero kill. The timer would last 20/30/40 sec. Also, the skill would be a toggle with no manacost, and only has cooldown after the Bloodthirster has been summoned (This would allow you to choose whether or not to summon a Bloodthirster based on the situation.).

-Chaos Sorc: Doombolt:
An Active skill that fires in bursts. A lot of low damage projectiles are fired upon the target area, each exploding upon landing/impact and doing damage in a small AoE. Every single one counts as a diffferent spell, thus overloading/bypassing spell shields. Damage would be determined by base damage + x% of int to avoid it becoming obsolete with armor.

-Commisar ability: Sacrifice an allied creep to boost the moral of surrounding units. Grants attack speed and movement speed.

-Innate for a Tomb Spyder:
Tomb Spyders can, when they resurrect, choose to either resurrect back at the base, or at the point where they died. Also add a small chance to rez upon death and passively reduce res timer.

-Apothecary ultimate:
Brings the resurrection timer of all allied heroes down to 0 and heals all allied heroes on the map for x/y/z.

-Vehicle hero's innate, should we get around to non-necron vehicle heroes:
Decreases damage taken by 10/20/30/40/50%, but there's a 2/4/6/8/10% chance of a hit piercing the vehicle's armor, inflicting one of the following:
>Crew stunned: Vehicle is stunned.
>Weapon Destroyed: Vehicle cannot attack for a few seconds, or if that's uncodeable, it's attack goes to 0.
>Vehicle immobilized: Vehicle can't move for a few seconds.
>Ammo/Fuel hit: Vehicle suffers a 2x critical hit (Ignores the damage reduction from this skill when calculating the crit.).

I have some more, but they fit in with some heroes I'm going to propose, so I'll just suggest them then.



I'll add comments about other people's skills in red.

Wanderer's Ideas:

A variation of the pulverize skill (passive aoe % to deal damage in an area around the hero) that also knocks backs units around the hero

A flamethrower (skill or item skill) that shoots a straight, widening stream of flame (not like Celestine's) in front of the hero that angles and lights units on fire causing them to take burn damage over time and miss attacks

This may be a bit silly, but how about knockdown instead of missing attacks? Why knockdown? Everyone knows that when you're on fire you have to Stop, drop, and roll! Razz

Cluster Bomb - causes random explosions within an area that have a slight knockback and area of effect

Heat Seaking Missile - (a long range missile attack that has a small area of effect and homes in on enemy heroes (something like the tinker's in dota)

A "powerfist" skill that knocks back one selected enemy; The distance of the knockback and damage would be determined by the strength of the hero.

Maybe give it to a hammer wielding Terminator (I forget the Melee one's names) instead? I can't think of anyone who has a powerfist in Warhammer. Then again, Powerfist invokes Fallout to me.

A toggleable stance that gives higher evasion per level but reduces attack damage by a lot, I'm thinking around 50% (definitely an Eldar/Dark Eldar ability)

While that's a good idea, that would have to be a damn high evasion to make it worth it, considering how much evasion is already in the game. On the flipside though, if the evasion is too high, it becomes a "Oh shit get out of this gank free" button. Basically, good idea, but would be hard to balance/make worth it.

A skill that lets you temporarily take control of a group of allied creeps in an area around the hero

There is one that forces creeps to focus fire a certain unit... so close enough, right?


Battle Frenzy - A togleable stance that sacrifices armor for a significant bonus to attack and attack speed

Interesting, but hard to balance, since lifedrain items would offset the armor loss.

Finishing Blow - A melee, damaged based ultimate that has a higher % chance to instantly kill an opponent the lower their life is below 100, 250, 400 (adjust to balance) from level 1-3
I obviously got this idea from the axe but I made it a bit more interesting by throwing in the percentage.

I like it, especially since it would be better against some heroes (like the Chaplain), than others, an element that is present to a certain extent throughout this game (some chars being good counters to others), and which I personally really like, since it makes character choice and choosing a lane a more strategic choice sometimes.

Force Field - Create a force field/shield (lengthwise to the left and right of the hero's facing) preventing enemy units from advancing passed it. If they touch it they are knocked back.

Slow Field - Cause enemy units in an area to be slowed the longer they remain in it

Daemon Strength (Chaos Skill, active) - Increase damage by 20, 30, 40, 50% and give a 10, 15, 20, 25% chance for attacks to knockback and stun all units attacked while the hero has the daemon strength buff. Again, knockback distance would be based on strength.

Doesn't Daemon Strength make you take more damage too? (Haven't checked the TT vers, but it does in DoW...) However, might need balancing I think, but not a bad idea.

Corruption - A chaos spell that corrupts an area causing all enemy units in it to lose armor and take damage over time. The longer they remain in the area the more damage is taken armor is lost.

Mind Rot - Causes a hero to lose mana and take damage over time

Rather than make them take damage over time, why not drain mana and make spells 1 level less effective for a period of time, or maybe make them more expensive manawise?

Reign of Chaos - An ultimate channeling spell for a chaos intel hero that causes random daemons to fall in random areas within a large area of effect. Each time one hits damage would be done in the aoe of the hit stunning and knocking back enemies. 3 lesser daemons at level 1, 4 daemons at 2 and 5 greater daemons at 3. The stats of the daemons could be based on the intelligence of the summoner. Also, the daemons could have their own unique abilities. This spell could also be adapted to work for the space marines by using drop pods for the summons.

Ascension - A chaos ult that gives you a high bonus to just about everything, physical damage reduction (stone skin) and a percentage of magic damage reduction based on the level. However, when the spell ends you take a high amount of damage to yourself. The hero should be made much larger and tinted red while having the buff.

Good idea, but it should have a life drain or something. Basically, some sort of life gaining mechanism that makes it so using your ulti won't result in your death 3/4 of the time.




Grass' ideas:



also: a necron themed skill(thinking about using it on the necron hireables if i put any in):
phase out: Necrons are never truly defeated, for if they sustain too much damage, they simply phase out of the battlefield and appear back at a necron world, where they repair. When under (50%) hp, the necron has a chance equal to 5% of the damage taken to phase out from the battle, and reappear back at base. (if its on a hero, the fountain, if its on a hireable, the base outpost)
(mechanics: a unit takes 100 damage, it has a 5% chance to phase out, it gets hit with the psykers ult (625 dmg), it has a 31.5% chance to phase out)

I like it!


the C'tan's godly essence is encased in a Necrodermis; a super absorbant necron adaptation of living metal. It protects the C'tan from any real harm, but should it be damaged or destroyed, the God's essance will be released onto the battlefield in a destructive explosion. Gives the C'tan a bonus (+armor/magic resist), and when he dies, his essence is released, dealing (200-600) damage to nearby enemies, knocking them back 400 distance.

Sounds like a more balanced version of a skill in AotZ (That's not a complaint by the way!). That would be cool to have in there.

living metal:
Necron armor is composed of a living metal that adapts to any damage it takes. Every attack an enemy makes against the necron gives it an additional (1-3%) damage reduction against that enemy.
(mechanics: a marine attacks for 20 damage, the necron gets 1% damage reduction, but only against that marine, the marine attacks again, and the necron now reduces damage dealt by that marine by 2%)

What is this? Damage reduction made interesting?! (On a side note, I've been thinking about Pariahs and/or Tomb Spyders as a hero, and this skill would probably fit both well.)



Good stuff guys! Let's keep the ideas coming!


Last edited by Fromundaman on Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:20 am; edited 8 times in total
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:27 pm

harlequin already has the fleet of foot ability btw Razz

and yeah, the necron destryoer lord does *not* have the ability to take over vehicles.

and the last idea sounds neat, if i could find a place to put it in Razz

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:13 pm

Yeah, saw she had Fleet of Foot the other day. Oops. Maybe give it to another person as well, but with this effect instead? (Easy innate... same skill diff effect.)
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:31 pm

Bump for new potential skill.

Also, you guys need to suggest some. I'll edit every skill suggested into the OP, along with who suggested it. If everyone suggests a few, this could become a good place to look when you need an idea for a skill.
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:56 pm

yeah, there are very few active ppl on this forum XD

messing up hotkeys isnt possible, cause u cant get a units skills, altho theoretically, u could mess up non-ability orders, like move stop etc.

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:57 pm

edit -removed (too many duplicates)


Last edited by DarkWanderer on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:04 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:26 pm

yeah there are some similar skills in there, but alot of good stuff.
a couple of them are simple, but hey, who cares

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:27 pm

Hey anything is better than the boring, generic wc3 ones right? lol

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:28 pm

i dont have many, if any, vanila wc3 skills in my map Razz
and the one thing that stood out most to me XD

A non-passive support skill that gives armor, hp regen, and mana regen (or any combination of these) to units around the hero
= battle roar Razz

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:47 pm

Going to edit OP with yours, as well as some colored comments on the side as to thoughts I have about the skills.

Also, for me, this one stood out:
Some form of mana degeneration aura (like pugna's in dota) that also gives a slight mana regen bonus to allies depending on how many enemies are in the aoe.

Grandmaster has it, and it's annoying as balls!
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:55 pm

I agree with just about everything you said Fromundaman, but I still want a mega punch (cough cough FALCON PUNCH! lol) skill Razz. I'd love to see a hammer wielding hero, and then we could just modify the skill slightly to work with him.

The main thing I disagree about is the evasive stance; It wouldn't get you out of ganks that often because it does nothing against spells. The main purpose of the skill would be to counter annoying ranged heroes with slows.

Btw, I have to say your idea of making the spell levels of heroes with the mind rot buff lower is absolutely brilliant. This would make it a great tactical skill. (How about you Hopper?)

You're definitely better at thinking these up than me. I hope you can find some time to post a few more.

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:35 pm

of you can code the skill level reduction, go for it, but as far as im aware, there is no way to get the skills of a hero.

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:45 pm

D'awww...

I figured Wanderer would like it too... Hopefully we can get it to work though, since that would be pretty cool.


And haha, Falcon PAWNCH! should be the ultimate of a secret random only hero, Captain Falcon! (Okay, not really. Though it would be funny.)
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Type-4-Doragon on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:10 pm

i had a thought on the ascension skill. eventually we might wanna go with a custom skin, but for now, whenever the skill is activated, the hero turns into like kil'jaeden skin with a red tint? he resembles the daemonic princes to a degree, kinda like the doomguard resembles the bloodthirster (btw, great idea with that, whoever came up with it). you could give him a sword model similar to what you did with khaine. once the timer is up, maybe add in some kind of animation to signify the damage he'll take at the end of the period. i'm thinking the animation of the eye of sargeras exploding from the single player throne campaign.
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:07 pm

also: a necron themed skill(thinking about using it on the necron hireables if i put any in):
phase out: Necrons are never truely defeated, for if they sustain too much damage, they simply phase out of the battlefield and apear back at a necron world, where they repair. When under (50%) hp, the necron has a chance equal to 5% of the damage taken to phase out from the battle, and reapear back at base. (if its on a hero, the fountain, if its on a hireable, the base outpost)
(mechanics: a unit takes 100 damage, it has a 5% chance to phase out, it gets hit with the psykers ult (625 dmg), it has a 31.5% chance to phase out)

i had a nother one last night as i was falling asleep but i cant remeber it now.. nvm!
Necrodermis(for a c'tan hero):
the C'tan's godly essence is encased in a Necrodermis; a super absorbant necron adaptation of living metal. It protects the C'tan from any real harm, but should it be damaged or destroyed, the God's essance will be released onto the battlefield in a destructive explosion. Gives the C'tan a bonus (+armor/magic resist), and when he dies, his essence is released, dealing (200-600) damage to nearby enemies, knocking them back 400 distance.

another random idea to think through:
living metal:
Necron armor is composed of a living metal that adapts to any damage it takes. Every attack an enemy makes against the necron gives it an additional (1-3%) damage reduction against that enemy.
(mechanics: a marine attacks for 20 damage, the necron gets 1% damage reduction, but only against that marine, the marine attacks again, and the necron now reduces damage dealt by that marine by 2%)

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:44 am

Type-4-Doragon wrote:i had a thought on the ascension skill. eventually we might wanna go with a custom skin, but for now, whenever the skill is activated, the hero turns into like kil'jaeden skin with a red tint? he resembles the daemonic princes to a degree, kinda like the doomguard resembles the bloodthirster (btw, great idea with that, whoever came up with it). you could give him a sword model similar to what you did with khaine. once the timer is up, maybe add in some kind of animation to signify the damage he'll take at the end of the period. i'm thinking the animation of the eye of sargeras exploding from the single player throne campaign.

Not a bad idea at all.

Also, bump for adding Grass' skills to the OP, as well as a few of my own.
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:29 pm

So, I thought of an idea for giving heroes a 6th skill, but with a twist. At first I had given up on the idea because I thought there wouldn't be enough space for the command button until level 25, but then I thought what is the point in having a command button for skill that does nothing but give bonus stats anyway? You can still see and take the stat bonus skill from the list of choosable skills.

I thought of 2 ideas which could be used for the 6th skill button. So I'm wondering what you guys think about it.

The first is to let the hero choose from a list of generic combat skills (psychic, strength, etc) that they meat the stat and race requirements for.) This would give each players hero a little customization that could make things more interesting.

The second would be to give a high level ultimate, probably around level 15-20.

I don't see how this could do anything but make the game more fun, (imo anyway).

So, what do you guys think? Good idea or just wishful thinking?

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:43 pm

A high level ult is something many games already do, but the the other idea is much more original, and IMO, interesting. Of course, the only way I can see this being feasible is by having at a certain level, the option to pick a 6th skill becomes available. If/when you click that button, it would open a new menu (much like EoTA does when you upgrade hero skills) wherein you could get an option of which skill to pick based on stats.


Of course, the final option, which would take forever to do, because of the sheer number of skills that would be required, would be to give every hero 3 skills for each attribute (which would only become available when you reached a certain level/min attribute and put in separate menus, like EoTA again).


Otherwise, a high level ult isn't bad, but we don't even have innates for everyone yet XD



However, does the attribute upgrade need an icon to work?

Also, would it not otherwise be possible to add a mechanism that allows you to buy skill upgrades with honor points? (Now I'm blatantly ripping off EoTA...)
The twist would be that you'd need a min of X stat to upgrade Y skill. (For example, Warphead couldn't upgrade Zapp without a minimum of Z int.)
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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:01 pm

I'd much rather have the custom skill option myself, but as you said some generic skills for each race and the primary stat/s of the skill would have to be created. This would require more work but , I think it would be highly worth it in the end. This is another idea that could potentially break us away from the dota stereotype that more and more aos's are being associated with.

Yep, I agree; the 6th player picked skill should only be available after reaching certain level.

Also, attribute upgrade does not need an icon to give the stat bonus.

I'd like to see the skills upgrade more than they do at higher levels; because some of them become nearly useless late game. The idea you suggested is a good one but I'd also like to see more skills that scale with attributes.

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:12 am

i would like it if u guys expand on the customizing skills idea xD cause right now i dont really know what ur takling aobut...
unless its something like TT's 'universal special rules' kinda idea, and a hero would just pick a generic skill... or am i wayyy off...

or another idea to expand on customizing: give basic skills a 5th level... but with vastly higher bonuses... that are only levelupable at like level 15 and 25 or sometihng... and upgrading a skill to level 5 gives a vastly higher skillpower, so people get to chose which skill would be best to make better... or skipping the last level of the ult to get 2 or something... dunno, just throwing ideas out there

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:24 am

Yes, The player-picked skills would be chosen from a set of skills that are allowed for the race of the hero. However the the skills from the set would have various stat requirements, making them unique. This way a strength based hero wouldn't be able to choose a powerful intelligence-based skill. And yes, they could be called generic but it would still make the heroes more interesting. A better way to think of them would be like hero perks or "feats"

-edit- Don't know why I didn't think of this before; A more powerful ult could still be an option for the picked 6th skill except it would have to be taken at a later level than the standard skill choices.

Hopper you're idea is awesome. Letting players choose what skill/s their heroes focus in would add another degree of customization to the game.

We all know the game can get pretty dull if it drags on for over a half hour but I think with the ideas we've come up with here we could prevent that and keep players' interest throughout the whole game. And with something like this, winning the game would be more about skill and tactics rather than just who gets the most powerful items the fastest.

Item-based gameplay is one of the things dislike most about dota. It can make the game very boring towards the middle to end and let one player effectively win the game alone by farming new players. I think the less dota in this map the better off it will be. That said, I really like how you have done the current item system.

Building a hero from scratch, like in some other maps, would be far too complex and time consuming but I think this would be a good medium.

I'd definitely like to discuss this more with both of you.

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:24 am

yeah, late reply XD but w/e
the only problem is, afaik, its not possible to code a cahnge in the level skip requirement for skills, so if a basic skill would get more powerful, it has to be learnable at level 1/3/5/7/9 etc... i cant make a 5th level skill require a higher level to learn

but yeah i like the idea of having more levels than u can use for your skills, but that would either require *alot* more levels, or lowering of the max level

its an idea to think about, but im not sure i want to make a radical change like this for every hero...
it could be an idea for a single hero tho

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by DarkWanderer on Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:09 am

yeah, late reply XD but w/e
I'm surprised; I thought you decided to forget the whole thing lol.

the only problem is, afaik, its not possible to code a cahnge in the level skip requirement for skills, so if a basic skill would get more powerful, it has to be learnable at level 1/3/5/7/9 etc... i cant make a 5th level skill require a higher level to learn
This would be easy to get around with a bit of custom script, and I'd be willing to do it.

its an idea to think about, but im not sure i want to make a radical change like this for every hero...
it could be an idea for a single hero tho
I understand that a radical change like this would require an incredible amount of work. Why not just do it for one or two heroes to start with, and If it works out, we could continue doing it for more heroes?

I know we still need to get the last of the innates finished, but after that's done, are we in agreement that using the 6th and final skill slot (which is being used to do nothing but show the icon for stat upgrades) for player choosable skills would be a good idea? If not, why wouldn't it since the stat bonus icon is doing nothing but taking up an available space?


Last edited by DarkWanderer on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:06 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:37 am

yeah, sry, ive had no modivation this past week to do anything really, so im working really slow XD

and kk, if u know how to do it then sure.

and yeah, it would be big, but i guess its like adding innates... it gets done eventually, and all new heros would start with acces... well sure why not, we could try it... see how it goes

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Re: Skill Suggestion Thread

Post by Fromundaman on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:30 pm

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