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Version Progress
Changes for v0.02.0A
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Farseer Mind War

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Farseer Mind War

Post by Type-4-Doragon on Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:03 pm

Hey, I just think the fact that Mind War heals the Farseer as well as damaging the target is WAY out of wack. I mean she does like, what, 200 something damage per tick at level 4? Yeah that's a lot, even for a spell. I wouldn't argue since it's channeling and has a fair range, but the healing is a bit much. If we could just take out that part, she'd be much more balanced.

Anyways, that's my opinion.
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by DarkWanderer on Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:26 pm

I agree with Type-4-Doragon completely on this issue.

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:37 pm

yeah, me too XD
but i dont really wanna nerf the farseer, as shes already not the greatest hero ever... maby if u suggest a decent buff to another skill or something...

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Type-4-Doragon on Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:39 pm

Lemme see what I can come up with.
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:42 pm

The farseer attemps to destroy her enemies mind. Every two seconds the target takes 50/70/90/110 + .9/1/1.1/1.2x the farseers int, and looses the difference in their ints. The struggle for their mind slows them by 35%. The Mindwar ends if the farseer attacks or casts a spell, or the target moves farther than 800 range away.

(no longer channeling, but ends on attack or spell cast, now deals int based damage, to help for late game, and now removes the targets int for the duration
math: the farseer has 35 int, the target has 25, he will lose 10 int the first tick, then 15 the second... ill prolly reduce the numbers, but thats the idea)

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Type-4-Doragon on Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:45 pm

Cool. The target will of course gain that int back once the spell is up, right?
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:46 pm

yep, after the 8 second slow wears off

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Fromundaman on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:00 pm

Haha Type, was this thread due to the last game I played FS?
Finally got the hang of her...

Here's the thing, with a life-drain, she can become abnormally beastly. Without it, I hate to say it, but she is just too weak. The only way she can really hold her own is get Str items and life drain people. Otherwise, it's wait for her ulti. Her Def spell (fortune I think), while helpful, doesn't last long enough (about the time to cast one spell...), and her 25% extra dmg spell, while good, seems to take a while to cast and makes hitting a pain.

Also, for mind war, if you know how Far Seer works, just bait it then run out of range. If you do that, she's pretty much not a threat until it recharges...

I mean, I like the idea for the new spell, but it's going to require either her incredibly low HP, or her armor spell's duration to increase.

Also, it's no longer channeling but breaks on spell cast? Does that mean I could follow him while it's going, then as soon as it ends start attacking or something? (Or for thaqt matter go back to my base while it deals damage?)
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:12 pm

yeah, u can move around, just not attack/cast but it keeps its range of 800
fortune lasts 15 secods eh?

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Fromundaman on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:42 pm

Does it? It always feels like by the time I've cast it and my innate, Fortune is about to run out.
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:43 pm

15 seconds at all levels Razz

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Glycine on Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:08 pm

Unless you're ready for a numberscrew, hold off on reading this post. I did it just for fun to see how effective Mind War is, late game. And for those who don't want to read the entirety of this post:

It isn't. It's still a nice change of pace and deals good damage, but has limitations.

Let me demonstrate. A fully geared out Farseer at level 25 will have about 90 base intel + 150 *at max* additional points. This is obviously 240 total intel.

240 * 1.2 = 288 + 110 = 398 ~ 400 * 4 = 1600 total damage, which would probably be closer to 1350.

Now we have doom, though, so give it a multiplier of 1.25 and that's 1687 total damage

Keep in mind this is without lifesteal. Soooo, over 8 seconds, she can do ~1700 damage.

Let's compare another fun hero, Vegeta. Pretend Vegeta can attack very fast, with a cd of 0.5 seconds. Assume he's a standard agility hero, with about 2100 health at max level, with as much Agil as the Far Seer has Intel. We also assume at this point he has 20% lifesteal and a 20% chance to crit for 1.85x.

So, Vegeta has about 250-300 attack and can initiate into combat well. Say he comes from the woods and doesn't entirely surprise the Far Seer, so that she manages to get off a Mind War when he's nearly in melee range.

With Eldritch Storm, she wins most of the time. If it's on CD, or there are a bunch of units in the surrounding area, things get dicey.

During the duration of Mind War, Vegeta has pulled off 16 attacks, 3-4 of which crit.
Assuming an average normal hit of 275, Vegeta does 3300 damage by the time the 8 seconds pass with ONLY his normal attacks. If we add in the crits, he does an additional 2035 damage. He also regains 20% of his damage in lifesteal, which translates to 1067 damage.

It's starkly obvious, however, that no Far Seer could take 5k worth of damage, even with a Mana Shield. Even still, Mind War would only do 600 damage total.

If he only gets off 10 attacks because the farseer starts to run, he still does 3300 damage with only 1000 damage done by Mind War.


That's the WORST case scenario.

Say, however, the Far Seer ambushes Vegeta from about 400 distance. If he were to run away, he would take the full 1700 damage which would be a sizeable amount, but would not kill him.

Now pretend there's this hero, Goku. xD

He's a nasty Strength hero, with 4k health and a far amount of agility so that he has a cd of .75. No crit, however.

In the same 8 seconds of duration, he gets off 11 attacks which do about 230 on average. That's a total of 2530 damage, 20% of which is lifesteal, giving him back 506 health. So Mind War, with a grand total of 1200 damage, hasn't even scratched him.

Besides having lots of fun with numbers, this skill radically changes the Far Seer from being able to tank hits to having to strike a balance between chasing to do damage and running straight into an ambush. It also means that she's more a hero for the early to mid game, as Eldritch will do its full damage in this period and threats to her won't be fully fed yet.

All is not doom and gloom, however. The absence of spells being able to interrupt her makes her a very nice cannon, although fragile. The speed debuff almost always means Mind War will do its full damage if close enough, which is devastating to Agi and Int heroes. It'll be curious to see if it turns out too weak or too strong. There's probably a nice mathematical function that'll represent the damage done, but I'm lazy.
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:14 pm

ill point out the flaw in both your argumens: your assuming a 1v1 situation with no team mates... which is NOT how the game is supposed to play out. u should mind war either: the glass cannons on the enemy team, the non int casters(fuegan) (their int drains *really* fast. and -int = 0 mana.) or even their int support heroes (the farseer has a rediculous int gain, so she could pretty much nullify heroes like the psyker, or the lord of change)
all in a 5v5 situation, cause of course a fed tank/agi carry wouild own the farseer, that happens now anyway... with a current max damage of 880 (which in your proposed situations, she'd die anyway)

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Fromundaman on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:17 am

You also forgot to add armor and magic resist negations Razz
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Glycine on Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:05 pm

I did account for armor, but not for magic resist negations. Oh, and by the way, go jump off a cliff. Razz
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:48 pm

lmao Razz it was a good mathcraft session Razz good to know i have people like u that think of those things as well, instead of just "NO! ITS IMBA!"

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Heroes:
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Glycine on Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:20 pm

Loooool, thanks Grass.

But I still didn't get any opinions out of my mathcraft.

Did it crit you for 9000 and stun so that you can't type or what? xD
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:34 pm

lmao. well, i cant get much out of it, other than its a hypothetical 1v1 situation, so obviously a farseer is gona die against a farmed agi/str hero. shes got low hp and an 880 heal isnt gona help that much against a dps hero

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Fromundaman on Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:31 pm

Well, be that as it may, she seems to survive against them fairly well in 1v1 if she got STR items, especially STR armor.
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:25 pm

but then shes like useless in casting and stuff Razz

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Fromundaman on Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:58 pm

Not really. All you really need is a spirit stone for mana. Then, at least before the skill was redone, all you needed was mind war to regen lost HP, and you could outlast most non-typhus heroes. Oh, and Eldritch Storm helped too.


My int heroes tend to have weird builds now actually, and I use mana shield on very few of them.
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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:11 pm

also its not fluffy for mind war to heal... but this current one is better, cause u 'destroy their mind with yours' thuns the int damage, and destroying enemies int

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Re: Farseer Mind War

Post by Fromundaman on Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:25 pm

Yeah, this one does seem better.
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