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[Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:40 am

TEXT DUMP! BEWARE, All ye who read on further.


You can't DPS and burst nuke at the same time. Or at least you can't fulfill both roles to their optimal performance.

I will give you that Fuegan in the past was not imbalanced because of his DPS, but because he could tank a mountain flying at him. There's a difference between being able to DPS and being able to DPS well. Every hero can DPS, when fed the right attack speed items. However, some heroes actually have skills that are designed to supplement and enhance their DPS capability even without those items, like critical chance, attack speed, and a way to get into attack range.

I will give you, again, that Farsight can indeed blink into range and indeed dawn blade a hero or unit and even arc it. Then what? He has a nominal damage boost from the aura, which does nothing at high health, but what else is there to make him DPS? Oh wait, nothing.

I'll do some calculations for you, just to show how futile it is to even imagine Farsight can DPS something down.

I'll pick three heroes. Kharn, to show your typical DPS carry, Pathfinder, to see how two supports would fare against each other, and Rakel, to see how a caster might do. These will be under best case scenarios, late game.

O'shovah's stats, under a best estimate:
Spoiler:
Health: 2790
Mana: 1470
Damage: 90-109 + 114
Armor: 18.5
Str: 132
Agi: 135
Int: 98

Notable skills and effects: -11 armor nuke, bunch of other nukes.
Can gain up to 6.5 armor, 29% damage, 10% MS at 10% health.
-6 armor loss, 15% chance to do 2.13x, 25% evasion
Given his nuke heavy skillset, he needs DPS items:
Cycl, Uge, Holo, Comb, Sacr, Spiri


Kharn's stats are as followed:
Spoiler:
Health: 3390
Mana: 1305
Damage: 106-122 +171
Armor: 22.6
Str: 162
Agi: 113
Int: 82

Notable skills:
Toggleable 12% reduction
22% chance to deal 1.85x damage.
Can gain 75% AS, 20% MS, 15 armor, 30 Regen.
20% life steal, can block 425 spell damage, can run really fast after stealing a bike.

Items: Sacr, Swor, Tyra, TA, Comb, Swoop.

So let's see how unfair of a fight this turns out to be, shall we? I have a sneaking suspicion Farsight will do a little better than I thought he would from the start. Let's give Farsight the initiative, and so he jumps in, dealing 220 damage. Then he strikes with Dawn Blade, removing 11 armor, and uses Arc to deal 225 + 132*1.25 (390) damage, which is completely negated by the spell armor on the TA. Still, you get the knockback 300 range.

Let's assume this happens within a 4 second period.
1 second to jump in, another two seconds to toggle Dawn blade and strike, and a second to trigger Arc. So he still has to stay in melee range for 3 more seconds and has 7 more seconds on the effects of Dawn Blade.

So at this point, Kharn has 3170/3390 health and 11.6 armor. The damage reduction of the armor went down from 57% to 40%, a damage bonus of 17%. O'Shovah is completely untouched.

After Arc, Kharn readies his charge and comes flying in. We'll assume no crit. on charge. Because Farsight is stuck in melee range at this point, he can't take advantage of the 30% bonus damage on Kharn while he charges. It'll take another 2 seconds to charge and strike, so Farsight has about 1 second before he switches back to melee. Kharn will then do 385 damage, assuming this attack is not evaded, which we will assume for the sake of first blows. He also gains 90% attack speed upon striking for 5 seconds, which becomes an important factor. With this, his attack speed becomes .438, compared to Farsight's base AS of .588.

Here comes the assault phase. After the charge, Dawn Blade will roughly last for 5 more seconds, which lines up neatly with Charge's AS bonus. Let's assume Kharn procs the ult right after charge by shift-selecting, increasing his AS to .369, Armor to 26.6, and Regen to 30.

Over 5 seconds, Farsight can attack 8.5 times, so I'll round up to 9, while Kharn can attack 13 times. Let's do all the damage calculations for Farsight first.

213.5 base damage. Let's apply an average 15% damage buff from the start, to factor in the innate, giving us 245.5. Then apply the -6 armor loss, giving Kharn 20.6 armor and a damage reduction of 56%. However, Kharn also receives an additional 12% reduction from his toggle, giving him a total of 61% reduction.

Assuming 2 attacks crit for 522.9, all the rest of the attacks will then do 245.5 * 7, totaling 2764.3, to be reduced by 1.61, giving a net total of 1716.9. Not too shabby, if I do say so myself. Kharn will recover 150 health from regen, so 1566.9 net.

Now let's do Kharn. 285 base damage, and we'll say 3 attacks crit, while 4 attacks are evaded by Holosuit, with one of the attacks being the crit. That leaves a total of 7 attacks and 2 crits for 1.85x, which totals up to 3049. If we give Farsight 3 bonus armor across the entire duration, he'll have 21.5 armor, which reduces damage by 57%, and resulting in 1942 damage. Kharn then recovers 20% of that as life, which is 388.4.

Final calculations:
Damage done to Kharn: 1178.5 + 220 = 1398.5.
Damage done to Farsight: 385 + 1942 = 2327.

Keep in mind Farsight hasn't used his ult yet, but I doubt it would make a lot of difference. Kharn still has well over half his health left, while Farsight has less than a fifth of his health remaining.

If I were to test them naked, without any items, Kharn would utterly trash Farsight in a 5 second duel. That said, let's say Kharn didn't use his ult, and calculate what happened in that case.

Farsight: Kharn has 5.6 armor and 12% reduction, resulting in a net 34% reduction.
2764.3/1.34 = 2062.9 damage - 352 = 1710.7 + 220 = 1930.7 damage or 57% of Kharn's life.

Kharn: Attacks 11 times, 3 crits, 3 evades, with 1 evade being a crit. End result is 6 attacks, 2 crits at 285 base and 1.85x, totalling 2764.5. That is then reduced by 1.57, totaling out to 1760.8. Kharn then recovers 20% of that, which is 352. Add the 385 from charge and Kharn does 2145.8 damage or 77% of Farsight's life.

Surprisingly the two are somewhat even, when Kharn's not fighting with any armor buffs. And that seems to be the key. If any armor buff or extra source of resistance is present, it's enough to almost wipe out Farsight's advantage even with him having -armor on attack.

So far, I can make a preliminary conclusion that Dawn Blade will only serve to pick on characters who can't buff armor, mostly casters, because DPS heroes are able to best it simply because of attack speed and damage done.

Also, it reinforces my assertion made at the start that Farsight will only get as far as his items allow him, if you try to DPS with him. If he didn't have corruption or the crit, his DPS would be shit. Quite literally. Assuming with Kharn's ult and no crit/corruption, that whole combo would do 245.5 * 9 / 1.66 - 150 - 388 = 793. Do you see how dependent on items his DPS is? Without Kharn's ult, it's 245.5 * 9 / 1.4 - 150 - 352 = 1076. Absolutely pitiful. And this is just with Termi. Armor as an armor source.

Granted, it is Kharn he's facing, but it's quite possible the worst DPS character you could face, besides Asurmen. All one needs to do, when facing O'Shovah, is rush armor quicker than normal, because Dawn Blade's effectiveness is tied to it.

There are other characters who can get far more armor than 22.6, and I would imagine a team of Void, Mek, Cato, Chappy, and Farseer could stack armor on Void and have a 62 armor monstrosity running about at 80% reduction and 45% magic resistance. But that would be just for kicks. ^^; Point is, 11 armor is not hard to come by.

What Dawn Blade does do, however, is set up wonderfully for other DPS characters to actually come in and do damage, like a Karandras or Snikrot. He can get in and out very easy and has some punch at the end with the ult.

And while that does fit his role of a support (he's not as frontline as you'd like to think he is) hero, Farsight does not support. He only has this role because his skills relegate him to it, not *actually* because he's a supporter. A burster, he really isn't, because I can use your same set of skills and say they work out of harmony with each other.

The innate works best when he's at range, but ranged heroes often remain at high health and aren't in the mood to set themselves up to be attacked by a melee hero who can outburst it. Additionally, none of his other skills set him up to be a supporter of creeps, save the ult.

Plasma Assault as an initiating move isn't quite as good when you know that arc's the actual skill used to initiate. 220 damage is somewhat annoying every 11 seconds, but nothing scary or special. As a blink, it works fine.

For Arc to be a good initiating move, under your terms, it needs to stun or disable at least 1, if not 2 heroes on the other team. The problem is, the range on Arc is incredibly limited. If it's a targeted move, yes, you can select a particular hero you want to knockback for 1 second. But if you have to maneuver Farsight in the proper location and hope your targets are in range of the arc when you swing, it becomes a much tougher proposition. And I dispute knockback as an actual disabling tool. It doesn't slow, it doesn't stun (in classical terms), and once Arc has occurred, there's no way to get Farsight out of harm's way, in case something throws a wrench in the plans. The only other knockbacks present are Chappy's, which can proc multiple times, Commie's, which also can proc multiple times, Warboss's, which just lags you to death, and a few others. The most important thing for a knockback is that it can keep procing and disable in that way.

Flayed One's knockback highlights this problem. It was highly inefficient and difficult to use without blink boots and its use as an initiating move was very, very rare, compared to what Burrow Strike could do.

Dawn Blade does not make him DPS. Items make him DPS. To expect Dawn Blade to do so by itself is improbable and unlikely. Libby's 60% damage boost alone isn't enough to keep him on par with a DPS hero. It's the silences, stuns, and holds, not to mention the items, that allow him to outDPS spellcasters and most other heroes.

And the ult is a pushing tool first and foremost in its current state. 2x damage to buildings? Large amounts of life and armor? Does this sound like Cato's summons again, except on a better scale?

So there are elements of a pusher in the innate and ult and a DPS/initiator in the other three skills: A blink whose damage effects are non-existant, an arc which thinks it can serve as a disabling move, and a armor crush, while efficient early-mid game, does not as well as it should late game.

The reason I did all this work is to basically say that I do not agree with him as a support. The Tau will have lots of specialized support characters and I don't want the whole tavern to be characters which can't work by themselves.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:47 am

You forgot the damage on dawn blade. But minor detail.

The trick to initiation is using your blink to her you where you want and them use arc... Its superior to flayed one cause its ground targeted... So you get your instant positioning.

And what do you want him to be then? A hard carry? It seems like it the way you keep trying to compare him to kharn.
He shouldn't be able. To stand up against kharn... If heroes could easily stand up to hard carries... What's the point of hard carries?

No. Blade does not make him a dps hero. It is however a dps skill.
IMO, he shouldn't *be* a hard carry. He should be a support, he is a commander, and full of good lovely tactics.
And yes, he will be a front liner. 3 of his skills require that he be in melee range. So yes he will take hits, which is what the aura counts on.

And please please get it out of your head that all heroes need to dos come late game. Farsight can absolutely dominate early, and can still do moderately decent damage late, but really he allows dos heroes to shine.
he is not meant to be a hard carry so stop comparing him to one.

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:19 pm

I do not expect him to be a hard carry, Grass. But if you say he can DPS with Dawn Blade, I say he needs items to make the best use of it. The rest of his skillset does not facilitate him in that role, which we both acknowledge.

The thing is, I do. not. believe. he's suited for a support role. Shadowsun is more a support, with her drones. Aun'va is more a support pusher, with his summons, aura, and skills. Pathfinder is more a support, who can give a degree of map control (Although implemented not so well at this point).

Farsight is the only Tau Commander who's *designed* to hit things with a Blade, and while his skills get him into melee range, he's not designed to actually do anything there besides act as a walking armor crush, which by the way, 11 is far too much.

None of his other skills will be remotely cared about, because of how imba. Dawn Blade will become in its current state. Even without the damage, the fact he can effortlessly get in and smack someone with it means that any invisible DPS hero will be able to kill someone instantly. Even normal heroes will receive a huge advantage. There's no dispel, no way to get rid of the debuff, and if he gets corruption, nothing will withstand -17 armor.

Besides use his ult and push rather well, what can he do late game? He can't chase well, has no slows or disables outside of melee range, and rolls a one if he tries to tank, because he has no skills that allow him to, just his strength.

If you were reading above, I did say I didn't want him to be a support. And obviously he can't hard carry. So that leaves us in the middle. If there's any Tau hero who has the potential to be a tank, more so than any other unit, it's Farsight.

You haven't proven to me that Arc has the numbers to be effective, but since you can modify them as you will, I'll let that slide slightly. We've hamstrung him to Dawn Blade, when in fact he has other skills in need of attention.

tl;dr: What do I want him to be? Not a support, not a walking Dawn Blade, because that's all he'll become. Farsight isn't your armor bitch, in other words.

I want him to be a stand-alone character, one who has unique skills which serve primarily to act as the anvil between the hammers. The picture you paint of Farsight is that of a support with lots of life, who can go in, armor crush a few heroes, and need other heroes to come in and finish the job. The picture I'd paint is that of a self-sufficient hero, who is capable of not only initiating, but also finishing without having to nuke the entire planet.

Given that you might have already coded him in, my opposition may be in vain, as I wouldn't ask you to change what you've just put in. But I don't support his current role.

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:32 pm

If by "anvil between the hammers" you mean being able to get in there, hold, distract, and enable allies to smash stuff...
He can already so that.

What can be done tho is give a real stun to arc, so he can initiate a bit better ) the knockback won't be that huge)
And give him a skill for tanking damage.

Blink is his her I there.
Arc is his hold an enemy team in place
Dawn blade is his "focus this target" skill
The ult is his finisher.
The inmate can be remade into a tanking skill.

Really... I don't see a problem with what he has atm

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:46 pm

Get on chat, if you can.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:48 pm

No can do. In at school

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:52 pm

Fffail. xD

Well, the problem I have is that armor crush seems redundant. Going way, way back in the topic, I would rather Dawn Blade do something to magic resistance alone, because we have so many heroes already who reduce armor or negate it, and very few heroes who can amplify spell damage.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:58 pm

That's fine. It has no were near the same potential tho. Which I guess is good.
By what values? Relativly the same amount as current armor numbers?

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:23 pm

Well, if his spells were able to do magic damage, it would do quite a bit. I note the earlier issues with that though, so we'll see.

You would be surprised, though, at how much casters benefit from loss of magic resist. Zoey used to wreck teams with it, even before Catalyst was imba.

As for values, hrm. It's tricky to estimate such values on a hero that doesn't even have enough magic attacks to make use of it. I'm trying to think of a way to incorporate a more magic styled set into what we have, because if he can't make very good use of a magic armor crush, there's not very much point to give him it, lest we tie him to casters instead of carries.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:29 pm

I can change the damage to magic of it mini stuns.
I should actually be able to just have no mini stun if I use a custom projectile system... Which *may* lag... I don't know... Because of many units being created.

Also... 15/20/25/30? With 4 or 5 damage per resistance lost?
Just potential starting numbers to work with

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:27 pm

It doesn't even need to do damage if the threshold is lowered. Or it could burn mana.

What's the lowest amount of magic resistance one would expect in a reasonable game?
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:40 pm

Just a note... It would lag about as much as path's pulse riffle does. Maby a touch more.

And what do you mean? That a hero will have? Or that it should be after reduced?

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 6:23 pm

Heroes have 25-30% by default, but how much is a good figure for reduction? I mean, if someone reduces physical armor from 0 to -11, that figures to be a 50% boost, while to reduce something from 11 to 0 equals a 40% boost in damage. Do we want to reduce magic resistance to 0 or go below 0? There aren't that many ways to boost magic resistance, so it's a little trickier.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:22 pm

25% is default. Only dragon iirc has more.its really hard to tell a good number cause magic resist is so much harder to come by.

If we assume no items or skills. Heroes have 2-4 natural armor. Then about 5 to 10 from AGI by 25. So total of 7 to 14... Remove 11 and they are at roughly 0.

So let's go with 30% reduction. That should give nearly an exact 0 after stacking issues

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:46 pm

That'll do. And I'm wondering if it should be 30% in one attack or a cap of 30%, with him destroying a set amount per attack.

The ult still bothers me, because it hasn't been mechanistically set out yet, but in time, I guess. Is it still a global nuke or it is actually his bodyguard, willing to take hits for him and set up in different ways?
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:58 pm

I'm partial to 30% in one go.

And atm its a global nuke + bodyguard. They can have whatever abilities work best

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Heroes:
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:09 am

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:05 pm

no it wont!

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:36 pm

Ok, based on our discussion last night, here are the details:

- Seemed to get agreement on taking the current ult, shifting it down, and making it the third skill, with variation.

- Agreed that the Ult should have Farsight do something in melee.

- Talked about the innate a little and wave control, but nothing really definite.

So here are the details on the summon.

Name: Guerrilla Warfare
Mana Cost: 15% of maximum Mana
Duration: 20 seconds
Cooldown: 40 seconds
Details: Farsight calls in an attack from one of his bodyguards on a specific area of the map. The battlesuit lasts for a certain duration and then disappears back into cover. Farsight can choose from 4 types of battlesuit loadouts as befits the battlefield situation, some good against infantry and others good against heroes or buildings.

The stats of the Battlesuits depend largely on Farsight's own stats at the time one is summoned.
Base: 150 health, 0 mana, 2 armor.
Health: Farsight's Str X 5/5.5/6/6.5
Mana: Farsight's Int X 4/4.5/5/5.5
Armor: Farsight's Agi X 0.01/0.02/0.03/0.04
All Battlesuits possess a Jetpack ability, which allows them to jump 600 distance three times during their duration. The ability is based on charges, so once the battlesuit has jumped 3 times, it cannot jump again before disappearing back into the jungle. Cooldown of 2 seconds between jumps.

The 4 loadouts are unlocked as the skill is leveled:

Level 1: Stormwave (Twin-linked Flamer + Burst Cannon + Multitracker) [Anti-light infantry]
The two flamers are the primary weapon and have an acquisition range of 250, but the burst of flame travels up to 400 range from the Stormwave. The flamers do 10-15 Piercing damage and a DoT effect of 15 damage for 10 seconds. Attack speed cooldown of 1.35 seconds.
Burst cannon is the secondary weapon, dealing low piercing Damage (7-13) at medium range (400) at a high rate of fire (0.5 second attack CD), using the Phoenix Fire ability in a 150 degree arc in front of the Stormwave.

Level 2: Helios (Plasma Rifle + Fusion Blaster + Multitracker) [Anti-summon, Anti-Hero)
With a Multi-tracker, the Bladestorm can bring both its weapons to bear at the same time. In this case, the Plasma Rifle acts as the main weapon, dealing above-average Normal damage (15-20) at an medium rate of fire (1.5 second attack CD) from a range of 500. The Fusion Blaster does high Chaos damage (35-40) at a 2.5 attack speed CD from a range of 250. Against any unit, the Helios's attacks have a 15% chance to ignore armor reduction.

Level 3: Darkfall (Twin-linked Missile Pods, Blacksun Filter) [Anti-Vehicle, Anti-Building)
The ability of the Darkfall to adapt in low-light conditions makes it ideal for nighttime activity and the long range of its Missile Pods enable it to strike units from the shadows. The Blacksun Filter grants the Darkfall unhindered vision at both day and night, which allow its Missile Pods to strike with optimum efficacy. Missile Pods do Siege damage (15-20) at a medium rate of fire (1.7 second attack CD) and an acquisition range of 600. The Missile itself, however, can travel for up to 1000 range. However, any unit that stands between the Darkfall and its target can be hit by its missile. (Making it possible for units to screen off fire from afar)

Level 4: Lightfall (Markerlight + Positional Relay)
Though normally a Commander's suit, the value of this suit is such that Farsight allows the most renowned of his bodyguard. Markerlight: Same as Pathfinder, 1100 range. Positional relay allows units to deep strike within 500 AoE of his position.




Last edited by Glycine on Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:49 pm

question on attack ranges.
actually... request on attack ranges.

specify what you mean on the acquision compared to attack range.

on flamers: does the attack works kinda like a line damage attack? if you target a unit, the flame continues to the 400 range?

on missles: are they homing? if they are, then having the 1000 range and 600 acquisition is useless.

also. WHY are you obsessed with max mana costs? Razz
make a different cost per suit, based on its overall effectiveness in the game.


overall: with the exception of the last one, they just auto attack

EDIT:
suggestion on the flamer:
make it stream of flame, targeted at a unit, but fired almost in a narrow cone. The range is 200, but the flame travels the 400 range.
each individual flame (itll look kinda like the current flamer does) can hit units, dealing the damage and causing the dot, but no unit can be hit twice.
this will make it semi aoe, and much better at an anti-creep role, because its now semi aoe, instead of just a dot attack.

suggestion on the missle pods:
have the suits fire two, because they are twin linked. it also reduces the chance of completly biffing your long cooldown attack.

EDIT2: does the Lightfall suit have any weapons? >.>



Off Topic:
and your lucky i just imported that custom projectile system >.> hardly any of this would be possible without it Razz

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:26 pm

QUESTION

when you say 1.35s attack cooldown, is this 1.35s after the jet of flame ends? or 1.35s after it starts?

EDIT:
also, whats the merits of keeping that skill as an ultimate?
i mean, it is a global targeted skill, and we assume its decently powerful.
not to mention the cooldown and manacosts are already nearly right >.>

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:01 pm

Well, it would have to be a whole lot better if it was to be the ult.

We did, though, all agree that the ult should be something different than a summon.

And it should not be a nuke under any circumstances. He isn't meant to be a nuker (we've been over this, Grass) and if he is to be a frontline support, he ought to act like one, or act like a frontline fighter.

I was to suggest he be more like a light melee tank, instead of a nuker, based on the current gameplay so far.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:08 pm

Glycine wrote:
I was to suggest he be more like a light melee tank.
wut.



and what about the flamer?


EDIT:
and no we never said anything about the ult not being a summon Razz (for one, cell agreed with my change)


EDIT2:
Glycine wrote:Well, it would have to be a whole lot better if it was to be the ult.
would it really?

its already a global target skill.
its already epic versitility suits.
it would make the 4th suit less powerful, relatively.

all you would need was minor stat buffs (by about 20%?)

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Glycine on Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:37 pm

Grass, one summon on its own for 20 seconds cannot be an ult. xD It's designed specifically to be there and be gone, to prevent all the bullshit and problems we have with summoners. You must have nerfed or changed the summons of each hero who can summon 4 or 5 times each, which is just a waste of time in my view.

What if I don't want to buff them, though? Yes, if they were buffed, it makes your job much easier, with the existing code, but I'm of the opinion that summons should provide a little push to your forces, but not be dominant in any one way or another. And the buffs I would have to provide to make a ult- summon for 20 seconds would defeat the purpose of the whole tactic. It's not a permanent unit. It's designed to get in there, supplement forces in some way, and get the hell out.

Oh, and I said something. So there. Razz Again, I despise him as a nuker. He's undoubtedly effective, with his global nuke, but otherwise consists of 3 nukes, a general buff aura, and a resist crush/nuke. I would emphasize his melee role more, because he's the only Tau commander who prefers to fight in melee (and has a sword), yet he generally does nothing in melee range. Arc does maybe 200-300 damage throughout the game and its redeeming factor is the KB. He otherwise plays like a ranged hero, like old Pathfinder, which he is not at all.

tl;dr: 4 nuke hero, yay? >> Having nukes which go off in melee range is not sufficient for a character who should be in melee range most of his time.

Flamer: after it starts.
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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:57 pm

I'm veto'ing your flamer decision. It fires fast enough with the CD starting when the flame ends.
I had coded it in like that before I asked, which is why It didn't start out how you wanted

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Re: [Tau] O'Shova - Commander Farsight

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