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Sadly, it must be said.

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Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:51 am

Lucius needs a total nerf because his hero concept behind the skills is so strong, it overpowers numbers reduction.

For example, the range on his ult cast is absurd. I was chasing ghost on bottom lane and when he got to the outpost, he was steadily pulling away from me. Yet, when he moved to turn, my ult activated from 1500 distance away. It supposedly only has a range of 750. >>

Doomsiren is quite too good as well. 250 damage at level 6 with a 6 second cooldown? And a 0.5-1 second stun? His damage reduction makes him impervious to most things and only ganks can really slow him down.

Pity is, no one ganks him and as a result, he pulls off 15-2, 20-1 kill records, which is ridiculous.

Fix please. ._.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Fromundaman on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:03 pm

Heh, I usually try to gank him when I can, but you make it hard.

That being said, I agree, but weren't some nerfs lined up for him?
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:05 pm

lmao, ultimate is getting a cooldown nerf, *and now a range nerf, closer to melee that ranged*, doomsiren needs a damage and cooldown nerf

and really, lucius needs a remake to fit him more (importantly - his ult and armor of shreaking souls should do what they actually do in TT) which means comming up with a new skill

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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:25 pm

His armor makes him unkillable to an extent, but what does dance of slannesh do?
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:27 pm

dance was made up by kharn Razz

and his armor makes him be reborn in whoever killed him.
(So, something like - Unit that kils lucius takes 100% of his life in pure damage over 60 seconds, if it dies under this effect, lucius is reborn)

but doomsiren, martial pride, and lash of torment all work

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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:37 pm

60 seconds is a bit long, but depending on how much damage was done, it could work. 120/80/50/30 maybe?

The problem here is that people will just run back to the fountain and regen past the pure damage, but hm.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:42 pm

yeah, but if its too short, then theyre gona die... really easily. (and its gona be his ult btw Razz)

and spawn times are normally alot lower than 60 seconds anyway.

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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:36 pm

In that case, what should dance do?

I thought about it being a toggle that gives him evasion and extra attack speed.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by cellrawr on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:16 pm

<.< How about making it a leaping bladestorm attack. Lucius would jump to the center of a target aoe (where everything in the aoe would be damage) and do a stationary bladestorm for a few seconds. Damage done each second would be increased each level, and so would max leap distance. It would still give him a chasing skill still, and also give him an escape since he would be losing his armor skill.

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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Fromundaman on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:23 pm

If the armor is his ult, doing damage over 20-30 sec seems more appropriate.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:26 pm

20 secodns is too low... 30 is pushing it... maby XD ill try some things

and dance of slaanesh was completly made up by kharn Razz you are allowed to change the skill

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And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Fromundaman on Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:06 pm

Wait... didn't he point out in a debate that that skill didn't fit the character to justify something? *is confused*


That being said, I dunno... it's 1/30th of max HP per second, without counting magic resist. If the hero had 3000 HP, it would only be 75 damage per second, counting only hero magic resist.
Doesn't seem so bad to me.

That being said, maybe make it over 60 seconds at level 1, and bring it down to 30 seconds at level 3?
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:09 pm

that could work (and also, how many dot's deal 75 damage per second? Razz)

and he did... cause we were arguing fluff about the nightbringer, and he said something along the lines of: "it doenst say that lucius can blink around attacking enemies"

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And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:26 pm

And he invented the skill? Sorry Kharn, your memory is dismal. ._.

Hmm, let's see. How far can a half-dead person run in 60/45/30 seconds?

I want to avoid fountain invalidation because that screws the ult over complete. Also, Shadow Hunter could just heal off the damage, which makes it a pretty useless ult. Perhaps the target afflicted with the debuff would become heal immune?
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:27 pm

or, if an ally kills the unit affected by the buff Razz
as long as the unit dies within the next 60 seconds, you get reborn. the pure damage is just there to help it along

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And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:32 pm

Could we make Dance of Slannesh a normal skill by decreasing the time of the skill?

So he warps to the target and attacks 1/2/2/3 times, doing agi+str damage each hit? It would prevent it from scaling with his attack as much.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:33 pm

we could make it a normal skill, but then it becomes *alot* like dance of death Razz

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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Fromundaman on Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:43 pm

Hmmm... if we make his ult heal immune, THEN I think it's too powerful.

The way I see it, it is 75 per second, which is huge, you're right, but at level 3, and doesn;t include magic resistance from items/buffs, terminator armor shield, regen (with items you can regen quite a bit in 30 seconds), ally heals, or even outpost/runes/fountain regen boosts.

I dunno... doesn't seem OPed to me, though maybe it would be in game.

I don't like the idea of making his current ult a normal skill though for the same reason Grass just mentioned.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:48 pm

well... from... even at level 6... thats like a... 600-800 damage DoT skill, with the benefit of revival if the target dies *at all*

and then at level 16, your getting a 2k damage dot skill Razz

i agree *now* that 60 is too much... but 20 is too little... possibly 35 ish?

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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:09 am

It's pure damage, yar. It can't be affected by resistance, hence why Fuegan is so good.

But in that case, can't people exploit it so that a creep kills him and not a hero? Razz

Duration could be 50/40/30?

And I think we could change Dance such that every time he is hit, he gains pleasure and attacks harder and faster?
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:50 am

what? if the target dies at all, lucius is reborn

and dance already gives him max attack speed >.>

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And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
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And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Fromundaman on Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:28 pm

Oh right, forgot about pure damage. Maybe we should make it *not* pure damage?

Also, I dunno... I mean, it is high, but no matter what you do with this skill, it is going to be high DPS. I propose it scale up to 30 seconds at max level, starting at something like 60 or 70.

(At level 6, most heroes have less than 1k, but it's easier to do the math with that, so I'll use that.
1000/60 = 16.6666666 damage/sec. That's not bad at all...)
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Glycine on Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:45 pm

Hmm. In that case, we'll have to make up a new skill for him completely, in my opinion.

Doomsiren's his bread & butter move, and he still has Lash and Martial to provide damage reduction and as/ms. What he loses is his ability to gank in exchange for relatively eternal survivability.

The current ult makes him almost superior to most characters while the changed ult sort of evens him out.

By the way, what happens early game when the respawn time is low? Does the damage only get done while lucius is dead, because if so, it's a terrible ult to have since it can't kill anything in that 5-15 second period.
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:37 pm

lucius' ult only damages the hero when lucius is dead.
(and i just thought... if a creep kills lucius... what happens XD - ill prolly just give it a cooldown, like reincarnation)

and well, assume level 6 with 750 hp... if it lasts (im thinking 30 seconds all levels, cause even if the hero doesnt die to the DoT, 60 secodns is a long time to have the buff)
and respawn time is 4seconds*lvl... so 24 seconds of 25 dps is roughly 600 hp.
to even have the ult, it will last at least 24 seconds

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And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
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And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

Post by Fromundaman on Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:24 am

Supposing it is a 30 second timer at all levels, then how does it level up?

Also, if he resurrects from this, does he lose/give gold from dying? Does he get exp for the hero kill?
If he kills a creep with this, does he rez?
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Re: Sadly, it must be said.

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