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63% 63% [ 5 ]
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Total Votes : 8

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Version Progress
Changes for v0.02.0A
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Anything with Mistress?

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Anything with Mistress?

Post by Veigar11 on Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:38 pm

I'm not sure if its just me,
but me and son were playing and mistress basically can tower dive whenever feels like it and take out an outpost in less than a few seconds alone with nothing else attacking it =/ we witnessed it and i have a replay, i tried to do anything possible but 6 illusions stuns etc

seems rediculous maybe its supposed to be not sure, give me your input =]
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Glycine on Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:00 pm

The funny thing about the armor outpost is that it reduces all damage by heroes to ~27, no matter their total damage. As illusions do 30% of her damage, it's not hard to imagine 5 heroes attacking. Perhaps Grass will have to look into that, because the 30% damage they do isn't actually reduced by armor or so it would seem.
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Veigar11 on Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:16 pm

yea what i noticed, something needs to happen because i dont even feel like playing when one is in the game lol
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:24 pm

due to the mechanics of stone skin (and no, im pretty sure i cant do it easily any other way) if an attack would deal less than the maximum damage value (in this case, 80 for outposts) the damage dealt is instead set to that damage value (or that seems to be the case anyway... cause the outposts' stoneskil used to work on creeps... you would not belive how fast ouitposts died XD)

so when mistress and her clones attack the outpost, they all count as heroes, and thus all do that 80 damage to the outpost (which gets reduced by armor to about 27 damage)
so with her illusions its like you have 5 more heroes pushing

i *dont* think i can fix that

that being said. mistress needs a nerf

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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by ChangerOfWays on Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:45 am

I vote super nurf. I had a gank ready just for her, and she ripped me and the GK apart. It just seemed wrong since we were both about 3 levels higher
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Veigar11 on Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:09 pm

yup changer, once you experience the hurt from her, you want to like blow up the computer! lol
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:23 pm

XD

illusions need to get nerfed somehow

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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Veigar11 on Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:11 pm

i wish i could tell you how but im bad with that trigger mapmaking stuff, maybe lessen illusions or something not sure, reduce base damage
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by 13loodRaven on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:03 am

Say, the more illusions created, the less damage they deal? Make it a significant factor. Also have a drawback on the illusions? "Once an illusion is killed it deals '?' damage to Mistress.

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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Veigar11 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:58 pm

That actually sounds rather smart blood
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by 13loodRaven on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:52 am

Just to make her less overpowered, and maybe her ult should also have a 'blood sacrafice' required to cast it.

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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Fromundaman on Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:45 pm

Maybe also you could make it so a spell cast on her/one of the illusions affects her and all of the illusions? (AKA if one takes spell damage/debuff, they all do?)

However, considering how huge of a nerf that would be, maybe make the innate last a tiny bit longer to balance it out?
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Glycine on Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:13 pm

I think having played a bugged Mistress in .45b might give me a little perspective.

The bug was such that Mistress could not summon any clones due to an issue with items and dummy units.

So I played her twice as a Standard Agi hero without clones and she still did rather well. The net and the nuke do a fair bit of damage and she's best when ganking, but she wasn't at all terrible without clones.

The innate does need a buff, though, so that wouldn't be a bad idea for damage to feedback.
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:16 pm

hmmm.... making damage shared amungst the illusions is a great idea Very Happy

should it be shared damage, where all take the same, or spread, where the damage is distributed?

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Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Fromundaman on Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:12 am

Hmmm... the thing is, with either system, illusions need to take more, otherwise hitting illusions will kill the main mistress VERY fast due to how much more damage they take.

Personally though, I think shared damage is best, with the illusions taking whatever % extra damage they normally take more than the real mistress would.
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Glycine on Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:46 pm

I concur. But I'll suggest something even more dynamic than just shared damage.


All health changes that occur to Lelith's illusions impact the original in some way, which is the cost of the connection. Say all 4 of the illusions get hit by an orbital bombardment. They have 1700 health, so the Obviously, the 750 damage will be enough to kill all of them, but assume that the damage feedback will be 20% of the damage suffered. So that comes back to 1360 damage, which is a harsh penalty, but we might have to play with how much damage feeds back.

This would also apply to any life the illusions *regain* from skills. Her net skill would be a good example. As the illusions attack and gain life back, a large percentage of the life gained over all the illusions would then flow into Lelith.

How's that sound?
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:04 pm

so, 20% of any life change to the illusions will also happen to the original?

am i getting that right? cause that sounds great

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And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Fromundaman on Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:51 pm

Yeah, that would work well!
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Glycine on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:35 am

The concept is there, but the numbers need tweaking.

I'm not sure 20% fair considering the damage multipliers for her clones. I just threw it out as a random figure, but since they do 30% and take 300%, I think any life the illusions gain should be multiplied by 15/20/25/30% and then flow back into Lelith. Any damage the illusions take should then do 30/25/20/15% of the damage suffered back to Lelith.

I'll do a quick bit of mathcraft to prove my point.

Damage feedback:

Again, let's use Orbital Bombardment. It's a 750 damage nuke, only reduced by magic resistance (Default value of 25%) So let's assume just Lelith's illusions have been caught in the blast. There are 4 of them. Each one thus suffers 562.5 base damage, before amplification, which then is a total of 1688 damage each illusion suffers.

If we take into consideration that only the initial blast hits the illusions and none of the DoT damage hits the illusions, Lelith then suffers a backlash of 15% of all the damage the illusions have suffered. That's 6752 *.15 = 1013 damage. A sizeable penalty.

Life gain:

Say a caster uses Staff of Tzeentch on all your illusions, who are at half life currently. Staff heals for a value of 260, if i believe so, so your illusions regain a total of 1040 life. Again assume she's not affected by the staff. It seems a little low if she only gains back 208(20%), considering the penalty if damage is done to her illusions. In this case, let's up the multiplier and then assume Lelith is affected by the heal. She would then gain 572 life, which isn't all that bad.

The more important situation is when she uses net and all her illusions attack the target. Let's give her the best case scenario. Lelith does about 150 damage with all her items, so her illusions then do 45 damage per hit. Give them a 1 second cooldown between attacks. Net lasts for ~4 seconds, so the illusions will be able to attack sixteen times total and do 720 damage. These illusions then only gain 20% of that damage, so each one gains 36 health from that 4 second hold. To this, I say...

WHAT THE.... >> (If you noticed, I was proceeding smoothly, but I can't do so after this.)

No wonder they die so much and don't get any life steal when they net things. >>
Buff the life illusions can get back from net and scale it to a factor where the penalty for damage is on par with the bonus for having shared healing.


Last edited by Glycine on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Anything with Mistress?

Post by Fromundaman on Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:32 am

That sounds fair.
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