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[Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:35 pm

Yeah, i kinda agree with grass on this one, which is the point i made to you when we first brought up the teleport idea for the ult, its redundant
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Glycine on Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:47 am

I would doubt its redundancy, simply because the two skills serve different functions while just sharing the name "Teleport," but I guess if you can't tell the difference between a blink and a skill that enables you to teleport enemy units as well, it can't be helped. ^^;

It would technically be one of the most powerful support ults next to Void, but I suppose it's redundant and so doesn't deserve a chance to be compared to a simple reincarnation.

By the way, edit the first post. xD

On a side note...

It's almost impossible to micro scarabs the way they are now, since all scarabs blend in together when selected. From also noted this problem when playing spyder. Also, there's no way to tell what scarab does what in this version since all scarabs look the same and you have to spend far more time than necessary to select the one you want. Perhaps you could find other models for scarabs or differentiate them some how?
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:15 am

oh, i didnt realise it teleported enemies as well (i really only did come in at the end)
and in that case he becomes even more powerful Razz

so now we have a global blink, 2 long disables, a heal, and a now an enemy position control?
XD your suggested ult is by far waaay more powerful than the current one, and really just too powerful considering the rest of the hero.


as to scarabs.
control groups >.>
i did say with micro Razz the micro needed in an aos isnt really even considered micro when compared to ladder wc3. so with a bit less than actual micro its very possible, but most likly beyond any aos player (including me dont worry)
and the scarab issue is being adressed dont worry about it Very Happy each scarab type will get its own individual unit so they form seperate selection groups. so that wont remain a problem anymore

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:26 pm

Ok Here is my current write up for Glyc's idea for an ult

Dark Portal
"With a flash of light, the daemonhost tears open a hole in the fabric of the matierum, sucking everyone around him with him as he steps through the warp, renetering reality with a concussive blast of light.

Cd: 60/50/40 Seconds
Manacost: 200/250/300
Aoe: 500/700/900

Takes ALL UNITS, allied heros/units, enemy heros/units, and moves them to the targeted explored area on the map
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:15 pm

oh, so its global too?

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:25 pm

Global in it's movement, It also has a casting time of 3/2/1 seconds
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:59 pm

heh. well, im highly against this ult Razz
it just makes him rediculously even more overpowered Razz

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:15 pm

XD, Well, then i need to think of a new one, as i am getting less and less thrilled with Possession.
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Glycine on Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:11 am

oh, ffs. Not global. That's inane.

1500/2300/3000 Distance. Or casting time can influence distance. The longer the cast, the farther you go, with a max limit of 4-5k distance away.
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:16 pm

even still, its ridiculously powerful in addition with the rest of his skillset.

not to mention you can port enemies into your fountain, or towers ,or impassible terrain with some little effort.

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:22 am

How about this: Soul Siphon

Channeling

Sucks the life from a targeted hero, Draining hp at a rate of 25/50/75 per second plus the percentage of mana missing on the targeted hero, Able to be channel for 4/5/6 Seconds, Range of 300/450/600.

E.g. targets a hero with 750 out of 1000 Mana, would drain 50/75/100, Ect.

This would change re-knit to "Whenever Cherubael Causes 25 Mana to be drained or burnt from an enemy hero, Give Cherubael 2/3/4/5 Damage, 1 Movement Speed per Stack, And 2 Attack Speed Per Stack, to a maximum number of stacks equal to Cherbuael's 50/60/70/80 % of Cherubael's Intelligence"
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Glycine on Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:05 pm

Even if they had 100% mana missing, you'd only do 175 * 6 = 1050 damage and that's assuming you could get them to stay within 600 range for 6 seconds. Maybe it'll work, but it seems a little weak.
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:32 pm

1050 damage seems weak?

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Glycine on Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:36 pm

When they can break the life drain by running out of range, 1050 is a number you're not going to get very often.

To get the ult to do 100/250/450 damage max, you have to keep them in range for the full 6 seconds. If it was more like mind war, it wouldn't be weak because you could at least keep pace with them. But because it's a leash type spell and Cherub will have to sit there for 6 seconds, you can't expect people to just sit there and let their life be taken.
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by cellrawr on Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:39 pm

-.-

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:15 pm

his pull isnt channeling, thats 3 seconds guaranteed, plus the time it takes them to run away after they have been pulled to you.

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:26 pm

Grass, i thought i made the pull channeling... but if not then if i made this the ult, it would, so my guy would port in, channel pull, then channel ult... How much damage is that total if you use all your spells on someone in the space of say 6-8 seconds?
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Glycine on Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:56 pm

I thought the pull was channeling as well. >>

And you can't channel two spells at once. xD
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:57 pm

oh, well i was misinformed, because it doesnt say channeling anywhere Razz

and now we have the problem that this guys 3 channeling spells...

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:48 pm

Well, the spells are all basicly op without the channels. I think the channeling spells balance him out significantly, as well as make him a more viable character. If this spell was a targeted nuke, where would the fun be in it?
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:50 pm

Mortis wrote:Well, the spells are all basicly op without the channels.

and theres your problem Razz
hes either gimped cause he has 3 channels and is stuck doing only one thing at a time for 12 seconds, or he is too powerful cause the skills are op

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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:51 pm

Well Allmighty Grass, God of the Galaxy in Flames! I PRAY YOU!

How do we fix it then? I love the idea of this guy, but Glyc says the skills are all too synergistic
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:56 pm

lmao.

dont put in another channeled nuke or anything.

keep the global teleport
make the channeled disable not 3 seconds at all levels
make the pull work by pulling them, not amking them walk, leaving them free to 'try' to resist it or attack or w/e (so like the current view the void on only one unit) and not channeled
reknit is good, make it focus on the healing not the damage buffs tho.

the ult i dont know tho... i can see it being really cool, and i *really* like that effect and i can see some neat cosmetics that i could do for it...
but atm... i dunno.

how about, when the hero dies there is some sort of daemonic soul or what not that is controlable, invul, and has some sort of support ability or another.
it also would have a possession abillity that allows you to 'posses' a target creep, causing you to revive *in that creep* instead of at the base like usual.

this way you can incorporate some of these abillities youve been comming up with, while not making the hero op, and keeping the cool possession skill Razz

i dont know if you'll like that, but its jsut my take on it

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Heroes:
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Mortis on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:00 pm

Grass Hopper wrote:
but atm... i dunno.

how about, when the hero dies there is some sort of daemonic soul or what not that is controlable, invul, and has some sort of support ability or another.
it also would have a possession abillity that allows you to 'posses' a target creep, causing you to revive *in that creep* instead of at the base like usual.


i dont know if you'll like that, but its jsut my take on it

Well... I like that idea. How about the Daemon Soul can channel a 'Control Creep' spell, taking over a targeted creep, and when it stays on the creep for a certain period you automatically respawn on that creep, killing it?
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:04 pm

yep, that was pretty much what i had in mind

possession:
takes control of the target creep, allowing you to controll its movements and attacks.
If the Daemonhost revives while the creep is still alive, it will respawn from the creep instead of at the base; respawn this way kills the creep.
[note: channeling]

something like that
and it might have other abilities too, like your warp vortex or w/e teleport spell and could even have the lifedrain spell proposed too
or it could have some other supportish spells.

no stuns or slows tho by nature of it being invulnerable

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And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Re: [Incomplete]Cherubael- Daemonhost

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