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removing bionics fromr recipes

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removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:42 pm

(after the stat re-balance) the other problem with bionics is that its in TOO many recipes.

So i need ideas on how to remove it from recipes, and items to replace it with

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Re: removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Mortis on Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:09 pm

Replace bionics in items with things that make up the aspects. In some things, its bonuses dont push through, such as the regen, so remove the bionics and replace it with the bio-mech limb
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Re: removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:39 am

Solution:
narthecium => bionics (bionics becomes a basic regen item)
narthecium becomes a targeted heal item (like it should be?)
nart and a combination becoems staff...

and i find replacements in the recipes
(and possibly find another regen recipe)

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Re: removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:46 pm

AND JUST FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT COMPLAIN:

bionics (costs 1650):
+6 str
+4 regen

gives 120 hp, and 0.002424 regen per gold spent


wraithbone armor (costs 900):
+4 armor
+2 regen

gives +24% EHP, and 0.002222 regen per gold spent


comparison:
the magic number is 500.

at 500 hp, bionics gives +120 hp, for a total hp of 620
at 500 hp, wraithbone gives +24%, for a total ehp of 620

so with anything more than 500 hp (most heroes start out with that), wraithbone gives more survivability that bionics does, with similar regen-per-gold (and the value of literal 2 regen is negligable)

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Re: removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Glycine on Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:43 pm

Effective Health only applies to normal attacks, Grass.

Bionics will without a doubt trump the survivability of Wraithbone Armor (Or most Armors, for that matter) when the majority of damage suffered has a magic or spell quality to it. 4 > 2. Giving 120 health is quite a better buff than giving effective health that doesn't even proc on spell damage.

And what does the most damage early game... *wait for it...* Oh, spell damage. That's what.
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Re: removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:47 pm

yes, but also: 3.1 > 3.
when it comes to regen, 4 regen over 2 regen is negligable

and you also get 120 hp from a mark of nurgle, which is less than half the cost, and gives armor.

i can get mark of nurgle and wraithbone for less than the cost of bionics, and it gives me *more* benefits than bionics (6 str, 6 armor, 2 regen)

bionics is outclassed by similar defense items, its only so good because it gives str and regen, but its also nearly twice as expensive as comparible defense items

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Re: removing bionics fromr recipes

Post by Glycine on Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:03 pm

The thing about regen from items is that it's always going, regardless of your natural regen. 120 health is all nice and fine, but one spell can make that disappear without a doubt. And if you cannot regen, then you will not be able to persist in any sort of battle for that long.

Ever try playing a tank? They have god-awful amounts of armor and health, but that health doesn't magically reappear. Yes, EHP allows you to take more damage, but it doesn't allow you to recover off the damage you already have, especially spell-based damage.

Armor is generally more effective for spellcasters, who have a natural weakness to sources of physical damage, a la DPS/Light Melee heroes.

On the other hand, Regeneration generally works better for strength characters, who already have a natural health advantage and only need to protect from three types of damage events:

Gankers: Not a whole lot can be done here. You get slowed and ganked by 5 heroes, neither armor nor regen will save you.

Bursters: Armor doesn't really touch most magic-fueled bursters. Regen allows you, if you survive the initial onslaught, to be able to counterattack quicker and at higher levels of health.

DPS: Armor does the best here, without a doubt.

Bursters, however, are most important during the early stages of the game, when regen happens to be so important. Late game, when you have a healer or generally enough health to do something, armor proves to be much more important against DPS carries and Int. heroes who have buffed their attack super high.

Also, 4 regen is not negligible compared to 2. Instead of waiting 50 seconds to regenerate 100 health, 25 seconds is much more manageable and more in the pace of the game. If you don't believe me, we can test your theory in-game. xD;

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