[Yet another Hero] Tomb Spyder

cool hero cant wait to see it done

i agree XD i enjoy this hero i wanna code scarabs XD or at least see them in game.

Heh, sorry. I used to have an idea I liked for the last skill (When I asked if it could be slightly removed from the fluff), and now I can't remember what it was. Been rereading the fluff to try and find what it was in there that got me thinking "What if...?", but no luck so far...

ok we alrdy discussedi n caht but for third skill make it like such
"adaptive Technology"
lvl 1-100% thast summon scarab makes scarab X
lvl 2- 50% to make scarab X and 50% to make Scarab Y
lvl 3- 33% scarab X 33% scarab Y 33% scarab Z
lvl 4- 25% per scarab x/y/z/p

the four type could be:
"tanker Scarab"- more health and an active AoE taunt
"Healer Scarab"- lower health higher mana pool with ur heal ability i stated earlier
"Swarmer Scarab"- swards target entagling them for 3 seconds doing 50 damage per sec (make it channeling so the ycant attack and hold and to represent the actual "swarming")
"recreator scarab"- give this scarab the ability you talked about earleir to creat another scarab swarm u coudl make this normal or give it a % chance to be one of the earlier oens listed

ok final note we came to a conclusion on a ult that can work quite well

first off add an element to innate that lets tomb spyder collect corpses that scales as such 10/11/12/13/14 corpse max

ult does as follows:
kills all allied creeps in a 600 aoe and recreates them into necrons the necrons gaine 5 damage per corpse, .5 armor per corpse, and 50 health per corpse
(max its 70 dmg, 7 armor, and 700 health)
240/120/60 sec cd with 400/350/300 mana cost?

idk me and fromu are still mathcrafting but this is general scope

REALLY FINAL NOTE LOL
str 30 +3.0
agi 16 +1.6
int 15 +1.5

EDIT: on ult its cost = 30/25/20% current health and 45/40/35% total mana for cost

I am fromundaman and I approve of this message.


Also, if you don't have adaptive technology, then the Scarabs spawn with no skills.

Swarmer Scarab may need less damage.

Might want to change the numbers on his innate to make the progression more worth it as well, but I can't think of anything offhand.


Otherwise though, this seems good. It replaces my old ult (which I kind of liked, but which was honestly a bit boring) and gives him a new one which still fits his theme. On top of that, Kharne solved the problem of him being too passive with the different scarab types, allowing them to be the main focus, and micromanagement to be the key to this guy.

What do you guys think?

we can cahnge the #of cropses i jsut made it that high so that at lvl 1 ur ult isnt rather useless

was also thinkgin of adding either 1 hp regen per corpse or .5 regen pere corpse to also help compensate for all thelife he loses

That could be a good idea. Or maybe even a tiny heal? Not sure. Thing is, he can get a lot of healing through his scarabs and life drain, but they require a good number of level-ups to make effective enough to offset everything.
HP Regen may be the way to go with this though.

Also, that seems to be the problem I had... it's got to start high so the ult isn't useless at level 1, but it can't go too high, or it'll be OPed at innate level 6 and just knock outposts off in seconds.

Maybe add the regen component and make that scale with level instead?

so the innate collects corpses (which do what?)
the first skill summons scarabs (no skills)
adaptive technology allows the scarabs to spawn with different skills
are we keeping soul consumption then?
and his ult is a huge aoe conversion that uses corpses gained from the innate

are corpses used for anything else other than the ult?

edit: and giving necrons piercing damage will fix them vs outpsots (peircing does like 40% or 50% vs buildings iirc)

edit2: call the innate 'harvester' or something, then make scarabs require a corpse + life to cast
adaptive technology:
u mean at level 0, scarabs are bland
level 1: scarabs are (lets say healer scarab)
levle 2: scarabs are (healer or tanker)
level 3: scarabs are (healer or tanker or swarmer)
level 4: scarabs are (healer or tanker or swarmer or reconstructer)

am i getting this right?

Yeah, soul consumption is staying.

As for extra effects for innate, maybe regen? I don't know quite yet actually.

does it make sense for a tomb spyder collecting dead corpses to gain regen from it?
or possibly add some max life every time its used? (not as much to make a scarab, but some max life)

edit: and dont forget to check my second edit above your post i did that after you posted

Yup, that seems right.

Hmmm... well, it could drain the life energies from the recently dead?
When you say add max life, you mean regain a % of max life, right? If so, then I like that idea.

Say... 0.4/0.8/1.2/1.6/2.0/2.4% of max life regained per corpse?

Also, you're right, Scarabs should use corpses, especially if there's a heal for picking up corpses... so 1 per specialized scarab swarm?

that works and then the ult needs more time to be better since u use corpses for your scarabs and ur ult but i jsut suggested hp regen because he "drains" their life essence kind of and i wanted the corpses to do mroe then jstu be part of the ult but everytime he gains a corpse u could do that =]

that would be mean by the time he got max corpses he would have healed 1/3 of ur health seems fien to me =]

and liek i said if u want more then a progression of 1 with the corpses jsut say somehting haha like 8/10/12/14/16?
then make ult 4 damage per corpse, .45 armor per corpse, and 40 health per corpse?

(thats 64 damage (pierce) , 7.2 armor, and 640 health) so then you get more progression with innate and still balance ult?

(this would now make it so when u gather max corpses you have regained 38.4% of total health so a lil more then 1/3 which still isnt bad considering how much life you are dishing out XD)

yeah, so im really liking this.
i just need clarification on adaptive tech... i got it right correct?
or to make it less random, could we make it a progression? like level 0 - scarabs are bland, level 1 - scarabs get heal, level 2 - scarabs get hp boost + taunt, level 3 - scarabs get entangle, level 4 - scarabs get reconstruct

or would that be too powerful?

naw whoel point was to have different types of scarabs so you have to micro manage if all scarabs have all powers it greatly reduces micro management and would indeed make them rigged

all scarabs would have taunt (we want this to effect heros as well) and then they would all have hodl thats more cc then LoC

so the idea is maxed theres a 25% they will be 1 of 4 types of scarabs in taht aspect you got it right

as an example ill tell you what i told Fromu
in NvB or 3rd SW pick the hero named Kankurou (hes a puppet master) he himself has one skill he gets that makes all his puppets invul BUT he summons 3 puppets each with uniqe effect (ones defensive, one holds, one is damage) so they dont all share the same effect but work together well and make him one of the most fun and challenging heros due to his excessive micro

so yeah haha theres a 25% to make one of the 4 types of scarabs maxed if you really want though jsut put the skill on a rotation so its not random

e.g. if its maxed and u summon a scarb first it makes lets say tanker and when u activate it swtiches to healer next time you use it it makes healer as u use it it switched to sawrmer etc. (a rotation of sorts)

id prefer it be how it is now though

eh, i now realise opness of all 4 in one, and im ok with 1 of 4 types summoned

kk then random chance to summon 1 of 4 types it is =]

To be fair, when you're summoning 6, odds are with the distributive chance thing that you get all of them at least once.

i know lol its 25% per each type remember i helped ya design it

still waiting for an OP update >.> before i can move it to dev

Sorry, had forgotten to do it, but it's done now.

ok looks good.

few things

1. scarab swarm... it summons 1 per cast right? the number shown is max number right?

2. soul consumption = insanely op -110hp per creep (so basically *5-9 this number from creeps alone) plus heroes with 1k hp add an entire 200 to that
what i suggest (other than purly nerfing numbers) is make it recover 20% of the spyders max hp, stealing hp from surounding units to do it (so if you have 3k hp, itll heal you for 600 hp, and if there are 5 units around u, itll take 30 life from them each). you might want to increase the %'s of max idea, but thats just numbers.
inpostedit: i just realised its 150 range, but still consider my suggestion that would allow it to have more range, and be less hit-and-miss

3. i think adaptive technology shjould do something other than buff scarabs (a skill doing nothing without another skill is bad design) so possibly make it pasivly buff him in some way?

4. the ults numbers are too high for high end corpses (they will have 800 hp, 80 damage... and there would be alot of them, and ranged) reduce the numbers. and when u say gain x damage, that means has x damage right? cause i wouldnt be able to do creep base damage + 5*corpses

1. yeah im pretty sure its 1 scarab

2. i think tht could work a total hp heal for him but divide amongst nearby units BUT only problem if you do have that 3k hp and its only a hero near you BAM you jstu did 600 dmg to him

3. i can see why u say that but the idea here is to make you focus on your scarabs and not so much the spider (micro manage in a sense) so if you really want to i guess we could add something but i beleive it will perform fine on its own
(as for your comment thatd be true but in this case that "other" skill i the whole point of this hero... summon scarab is the whole design behind this hero so i think a skill that buffs your #1 most used and necessary skill isnt rly tht much of a flaw so much as a plus and somehting to focus your attention more on scarabs as its meant to do)

4. thts easy lol 4 dmg per corpse (24-64 dmg), armor is fine, and as for health maybe 40 per (240-640 health) its kinda of impossible to truly "balance" this because either they are going to be reall weak with innate at its lowest or completely op with innate at its fullest so really hard to find a medium
(and yes it means has x damage so in this instance 1 creep would have 24 dmg,4 armor, and 240 health)

kk thought so... hp is good, reduce the damage a bit more (4*8 = 32 btw) because the ranged creep has less damage than that, and u get 1 per spawn
i *almost* wanna say 2 dmg per corpse... but possibly we should give them a base damage?
like 5 + 2*corpse damage, and they should get .5 armor per, i dont have access to the first page. is that how much they have? as well as possibly 30 life per corpse

either way, this is just numbers. the thing im really looking at is the 5+damage

and for the soul consumption. i changed the idea more for nerfind the heal than anything. by time he gets 3k hp, a 600 damage nuke wont mean a whole lot. and it used to deal 20% of their life to them, now it deals 20% of the spyders life, making it deal less actual damage as long as the spyder has less hp than them

and while im at it, i realy think adaptive technology should do something other than boost scarabs (yes u should be focusing on scarabs, and your entirely right kharn, but we want to give adaptability/diversity in our heroes, not force them into one set path) so i propse a possible str/hp boost when leveled up... or if that is really bland, then make it +x str/hp per corpse held... or something.