lets fix the items! (.47)

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Join date: 2009-03-31


PostSubject: Re: lets fix the items! (.46) Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:31 pm Select/Unselect multi-quote Reply with quote Report post to moderator or admin Lock post for new reports
im trying to move away from items dominating the game, where you can tell your gona win just by seeing that you have the 'best' items. i want the game to rely more on player skill and less on items making u own face.

in the long run, it prollly will be a good idea to remove some recipes as alot of them are kinda redundant
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Oh for sure. I already removed two recipes cause they were pretty useless... Or just better versions of another item... And I'm still having issues with the AGI items...

due to me becomming aware the bionics and spirit stones give about 2x the bonus for their cost...

Spirit Stone now gives +6 int +100% regen and no longer gives +5 damage
Spirit Stone recipe cost increased to 950 (from 500)

Bionics now gives +6 str +4 regen
Bionics recipe cost increased to 1000 (from 900)

also! (double post)

i think there should randomly be an item that combines spirit stone and bionics.

does anyone agree >.>

(tripple post)

added the Staff of Tzeench item to the list

Disagree. Maybe in an armour recepie but nothing that gives damage ;D

thinking about warp icon and its relative uselessness:

make it slightly cheaper, make it an accessory, reduce the effects and range, and make it a componenet of Warp Jump Generator.

or, keep it as a movement item, give it a base +ms or +ms%, and then give it an active skill that gives bonus ms and removes collision (or pathing) for a duration
(if anyone has played dota... phase boots with different item-bonuses)

Warp Icon

requires:
-Mark of Slaanesh (650g)
-Storm Shield (250g)
-Waystone (350g)
-recipe (850g, 1 honor)

Total: 2100g, 1 honor

gave:
+1 all stats
+5 agility
+3% ms (non-stacking)
+2 armor
+50% mana regen

Warp Icon
Classification: [Movement]

"Twisted icon of Chaos that pulses with an aura of hatred and evil. It places its bearer into their own warp-space, allowing them to act in their own time"

Gives:
+5 all stats
+4 armor
+125% regen
+Warp Zone

(Warp Zone: active. Gives +30% movement speed and (disables collision -or- disables pathing)

[note: collision is like the runtherd's grots or wind walk. pathing is like kharn's charge. collision still is restricted by trees or cliffs, pathing isnt]
[note: duration is 8 seconds, cooldown is 16-20]


its also possible to replace stats with movespeed (either +ms or +ms%)

Rehaul of the item costs etc, cuse i changed the cost/bonuses on the basic damage items

Master Crafting:
cost (350 => 250)

Close Combat Weapon:
cost (600 => 550)
damage (5 => 6)

Bolter:
cost (850 => 1250)
damage (7 => 12)

Adamantine Mantle:
armor (3 => 4)

Power Armor:
no longer takes bionics (lost +5 regen)
cost (350 => 1350)

Terminator Armor:
now requires iron halo
Terminator ability (.1Xstr% reduction => 30s cd spell shield)

Big Choppa:
Str (5 => 7)
damage (8 => 6)

Power Weapon:
cost (600 => 700) (total cost remains the same)

Force Weapon:
damage (5 => 6) (due to CCW damage change)

Lightning Claws:
damage (8 => 6)

Pulse Rfile:
damage (12 => 15)
cost (850 => 500)

'eavy Choppa:
damage (15 => 10)
str 8 => 15)

dual lightning Claws:
damage (20 => 15)

Cylic Ion Blaster:
damage (12 => 15)
agility (12 => 10)

'Uge Choppa:
cost (800 => 1000)

Tyrant's Claw:
removed agility bonus

Sensor Sweep:
true sight is lost on death
now upgradable (buy recipe to upgrade)
(base item - as shown
upgrade 1 - sweep reveals heroes for 2 seconds
upgrade 2 - truesight becomes perminent)



Summary of Item Costs for Items Affected by Basic Damage Item Change:
Mark of Khorne - 700g
Spiky Bits - 850g
Terminator Honors - 2955g
Big Choppa - 1750g
Force Weapon - 2155g
Lightning Claws - 1400g
Khornate Chain Axe - 3550g
Pulse Rifle - 2050g
'Eavy Choppa - 3050g
Witch Blade - 3605g
Diresword - 4455g
Staff of Tzeentch - 4005g
Dual Lightning Claws - 3550g
Cyclic Ion Blaster - 5850g
'Uge Choppa - 5700g
Singing Spear - 7955
Honor Blade - 7855
Tyrant's Claw - 8250g
Thunder Hammer - 7550g
Berzerker Glaive - 7750g

Updated a bunch of the items.
Tweeked costs, and effects.

most notable:
bionics repalces narthecium as the basic regen item (350g, +2 regen)
narthecium becomes a recipe item (biological stim, mechanical augmentations, bionics - total cost of 2300) and gives +str, regen, and an active heal.
Narthecium is now used in the staff of tzneech weapon (instad of psychic link)
bolter gives +9 damage and now costs 950 gold

lowered (or tried too...) the damage for all weapon
Tried to move away from overloading weapons with stats *and* damage, *and possibly* ias.

We need more goddamned orb-items! xD maybe later. More important things to do

Sword of secrets. Singing spear. Honor blade. Uge choppa. Ravens talons. Thunder hammer. Dire sword. Witch blade. (cyclic ion blaster). Evy choppa. Force weapon. Imant attack.

>.>

I think what he means is a greater diversity of orb effects.

You have melee lifesteal, forms of mana burn, corruption, stun, and rupture. >>

all thats left is various forms of orb of lightning, and orb of frost, and orb of venom (which is just orb of frost with dot)

and there are 7 differenet orbs atm >.>
lifesteal, feedback, lightning (honorblade), corruption, lightning(rupture), lightning (stun), lightning(manaburn)

You should take a look into smota's "orbs". They're diverse, and work with orb effects, so really, they're just items with effects.
Yeah I was talking about a greater diversity. We have the standard orbs, but nothing too special.
With smota, there are 10 odd orbs. One grants a passive AoE burn attack that lights up all enemies within a certain aoe of an attack to have a small DoT placed on them. Another is the plain old armour reduction orb, but it grants sight also. They have chances to blind, silence, stun etc.

Point being, we have medium-tier items that you can farm up relatively fast, but you cannot upgrade it into a higher recepie. (I cant remember their names but I know they're there.) Take spikey bits, its limited to very few recepies, and yet, its probably the most diverse combination-item used in other medium-high tier recepies.

Forgive my ramblings if they seem unreasonable.. It is 3am here and I'm tired as hell from travelling.

I would concur with Blood on this, in that a little more diversity is needed. Why do we have so many items that do mana burn? Are those intermediate items truly needed?

Force --> Witch/Dire --> Singing/Honor

Also, I don't know how I didn't notice this before, but what the hell is honor blade doing as an intelligence weapon? Ethereals aren't psykers, they can't do jack with the warp. If anything, it should be an agility weapon.

Its kind of AGI >.>

And yet its primary effect is to kill mana. >>

just want to point out that bonus int does not mean psyker/warp related.
point, however, on the manaburn issue.

so, lets think of a way to fix this then?

toss in an annointed oils in the recipe, add 5 agi to the total bonus... make the procc effect different...
but it would still have to be mana related if we keep the current base item.
liiikke... drain on attack (as now) but drained mana is buffed to allies...
i dunno

The Honor Blade was used by Aun'shi to parry attacks skillfully. It can still be an agi/int item, but the proc/passive/active has to be different, as you note, and not involving mana.

The damage, agi, and int can remain, but the mana regen has to leave.

In this case, we need a mid-game agi focused weapon that isn't lightning claws, to help serve as our building item for late game agi heroes.

The honor blade gives +2 str... And I don't remeber if it is a power weapon or not.
And someone being able to parry doesn't give the weapon that property >.>

No, it doesn't need to represent a direct parry, but it could reduce the attack speed of units in melee or block an attack every so often.

Then, please, Grass, do some brainstorming. It's nice of you to criticize, but it would be even nicer if you had an actual idea for it that doesn't involve mana.

I know a +2 strength effect is rather vague when it comes to finding effects for things, but unless you want to give it straight up damage, then you have to expand your perspective.

If you want to go off the +2 strength and make it a better power weapon, then it hardly has any connections to any race. How do you put a Tau feel on the weapon? Or is that not within your aim of it as a weapon?

If you want it to have the same effects as it does now, then rename it to something else that can suffice and change the effect's name. After all, it's good for gameplay, right? If you want it to be more realistic, however, then please suggest something constructive, if that's within your time constraints.

I've given a suggestion already. And exhausted my imediate creativity.
And there's nothing to say mana deals only with psyker-ness. Mana has been used to represent concentration in other spells... So its not out of the ordinary.

And if you so want to come up with a fitting fluff representation for an honor blade then go do it. If you come up with something I like ill use it.
All I've done so far is tell you not to make the blade suddenly give the wielder the ability to parry