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Version Progress
Changes for v0.02.0A
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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Empty [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

Post by Glycine on Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:45 pm

Anyways, we've decided to do something interesting with Necron Lord. This concerns you, Doomcow, as we're going to adapt your hive tyrant concept for him, except it'll be more awesome.

The innate will remain the same, although it might get a buff. Each time you learn a skill, when you click on the skill, you're prompted to choose one out of 3 skills in that pool. There will be a description of each skill and its progression, so that people can get used to it.

Skill 1 involves weapons, skill 2 involves active skills, skill 3 involves self-buffs, and the ult are three top-tier skills. Additional, when the ult reaches max level and the innate has at least 6 points in it, the innate will gain an additional active skill depending on what ult has been chosen.

Skill 1: (Weapons)
Staff of Light
Spoiler:
Toggles between a ranged attack and a melee attack. Grants 50/100/150/200% mana regen bonus.
Warscythe
Spoiler:
Increases strength of the Lord by 5/10/15/20 and gives 5/10/15/20% chance for each strike to ignore all kinds of reduction and evasion modifiers.
Disruption Field
Spoiler:
Active skill. Takes the armor value and type of the target and assigns modifiers to the Necron Lord's attack. Generally, the higher the armor value and the better the armor type (Normal, fortified, etc), the higher the multiplier of the damage.

Skill 2: (Active skills)
Nightmare Shroud
Spoiler:
Forces units to take a comparison test. If units have an int. value of zero or a value higher than that of the Lords, they are immediately stunned for 0.5/1/1.5/2 seconds and are not allowed to attack or cast a targeted spell on the Necron Lord for 3 seconds after the stun has ended.
Gaze of Flame
Spoiler:
Works much like the current Gaze, except an extension on the time units are stopped.
Veil of Darkness
Spoiler:
Works much like it does now. Perhaps throw in a quirk or two.


Skill 3: (Self buffs)
Phylactery
Spoiler:
Multiplies the chance for We'll Be Back to proc by 1.25/1.5/1.75/2. Also doubles the health and mana the Lord has upon repairing itself and gives it a temporary invincibility for 2 seconds upon repairing. Otherwise gives the Lord 3/6/9/12 health and mana regen.
Phase Shifter
Spoiler:
Enables the Necron Lord to turn Ethereal in appearance. Physical attacks cannot harm him and he will be able to walk through objects and units. He will, however, be able to attack normally, phasing in and out for but the minimum amount of time to land a strike. Suffers an extra 1.5x spell damage and is 10% slower at all levels while Ethereal. Is not affected by stuns or slows while Ethereal, however. Can cast spells, but does 25/50/75/100% of his normal damage while physically attacking in phase shift. Costs 1/2/3/4% mana per second.
Chronometron
Spoiler:
Passive effect: If enemy units try to cast a spell on allied units or the lord, there is a 5/10/15/20% chance that the attack or spell will not affect them, due to pinpoint manipulations of space and time by the Chronometron. Active effect: Enables the Necron Lord to turn back time and so eliminate all damage suffered by him in the past 1/2/3/4 seconds at the cost of all his current mana. For every point of mana used, 0.5/1/1.5/2.0 points of damage are healed over.


Ult:
Resurrection Orb
Spoiler:
Passively serves as another reincarnation skill for the Lord aside from the Innate, with buffed and different values. Actively enables the Lord to call Necrons from beneath the ground, which each have reincarnation modifiers from We'll be back and the Orb. Stats of necron warriors to be debated. Has a chance at each level to unearth a Warrior, an Immortal, and a Destroyer, each with their own chance. 12 total summons can be unearthed, 4 Warriors, 4 Immortals, 2 Destroyers, and 2 Heavy Destroyers. Stats will come below.
Solar Pulse
Spoiler:
Works much in the same way. Also causes all evasion/blind modifiers to be ignored for the duration of the spell for allies and blinds all enemy units for 7/9/11 seconds. Spell casting is also disabled for the duration of the blind and 3 seconds after as enemies cannot see where to cast spells.
Lightning Field
Spoiler:
Works in the same way, as it's powerful enough to be an ult. Is now passive. Does 2/3/4% of life per hit. At level 3, allows each strike off lightning field to bounce to another unit for the same damage as the initial strike.

These three ults will then give the innate a new skill, depending on which ult was picked. Note: Not finished.

Resurrection Orb
Spoiler:
Allows the lord to call up Scarabs and Tomb Spiders to do his bidding. The Scarabs will cast an autoheal on necron units, while the Tomb Spyders will resurrect fallen Necron units. Passively, Reconstruction Scarabs will increase the regen of all surrounding units and increase the amount of health with which Necron Warriors, Immortals, and Destroyers revive with.
Solar Pulse
Spoiler:
Active weather change to night for 1 minute, cooldown of 2 minutes. During nighttime, the Necron Lord and all allied units around him will blend into the darkness and turn invisible. Creeps will reveal themselves upon attacking, but the Necron Lord will not.
Lightning Field
Spoiler:
Enemy Drop Pods used within 5000 range scatter for double their normal distance and are not affected by teleport homers. Enables the Necron Lord to take the charge from allied units affected by Lightning field and cast lightning strike(s) in an area from 3000 casting range. Number of strikes/power depends on the amount of units that are charged. Every time a unit is attacked, they build static charge. When the lightning bolt is used, all nearby units have their charges removed, and the ult is disabled for 60/45/30 seconds.


Last edited by Glycine on Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:55 am; edited 8 times in total
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Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:53 pm

just to add:
staff: some sort of caster buffs, ranged weapon
scyth: direct combat, possibly a crit
disruption: possibly some sort of +pure or magic damage.

nightmare shroud: possibly some sort of active slow/debuffs in an area
gaze: like current, longer stun and silence
chronometron: aoe ally speed buff, enemy slow

phylactery: increases regen and life gained from wbb
phase: possibly active for no collision and triggered evasion
lightning field: kinda as is, either passive, or toggle

res orb: large aoe animate dead
solar: as is
veil: as is, ult-style

just some thoughts gly, work with these, change em up, do what you will

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Post by Glycine on Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:16 pm

Abilities are created. Go pick at them.
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Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:36 pm

weapons look good.
quick summery, tell me if im getting it
staff: ranged mode
scythe: +str and a %chance to deal pure damage
field: bonus damage depending on their armor

shroud: why does it affect enemies with *more* int than you? the effects are good, conditions, not.
other two are good

phylactery might end up being very powerful, but we'll see. looks to be just numbers that are off
same with phase... a toggleable invince sounds very good Razz is he slower at all while phased?
and chrono is good. maby a bit similar to keeper's aura. with an active aoe miss.

res orb. how many does it summon? Razz and if the pariah/wraith/flayed one are heroes, its a bit demeaning to have them as regular summons. i would leave them off, and do warriors, imortals, destroyers.

solar pulse: way to op number wise. the miss chance is fine (are we keeping the cant see effect?), but 10 seconds of silence is no way.

lightning field seems very bland next to the other two options tho

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Post by Glycine on Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:01 am

Scythe and Field are subtly different. Scythe will never increase your damage, only make it pure. Field will increase your damage depending on the armor type and value, but it'll still be reduced.

If you're more intelligent, you're more rational, if you're more rational, your fears have greater command over you since your mind has greater capability. Etc, etc.

Haven't fixed skills 2, 3, and the ult all the way, though.
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Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:34 am

kk, then field will get worse as they get more armor you know right? Razz

assume 50% reduction from 10 armor, cause i dont feel like calculating it.

with 100 damage and lets say +5 damage per 10% reduction on your original attack, you would deal 50 + (5*5)*50%, or about 62 damage
now with 70% reduction from 20 armor, you would deal 30 + (5*7)*70%, or about 54 damage.

your damage is getting slowly lower, while warscyth, you would deal 100 damage.

perhaps just tweek it a bit. i like where it is going, but it almost seems like disruption fields are the weakest right now. noticably

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Post by Glycine on Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:17 am

Uhm. Not quite how I had pictured it.

With disruption fields, each armor type gets a particular modifier.
Fortified: 1.5x
Hero: 1.0x
Normal: 1.3x
Large, Small, Medium: 1.2x
Unarmored: 1.1x

For every point of armor the attacked unit has, disruption fields also gain a base 0.5 + 0.1x multiplier. So if they have 10 armor, Disruption gets a 1.5x modifier to damage.


Say I was to attack the fortress and I have 100 base damage. It has 40 fortified armor, if I recall.

100 * 1.5 * 4.5 = 675 damage/2 = 450 damage / 1.7059 = 198 damage. Keep in mind this is an active skill and has a duration, so it's meant to naturally be more powerful than Warscythe.

If I were to attack a hero with 25 armor...

100 * 1.0 * 3.0 = 300 damage / 1.6 = 187 damage.

So disruption fields will more or less double the damage he does while the buff is on.


Last edited by Glycine on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:45 pm

ok then, that makes a bit more sense.

but its not possible to determine armor types. you would have to base it on damage ressistance somehow

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Post by Glycine on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:49 am

Part 1: Supposition.

Is it possible to separate out the damage reductions such that one could ascertain the armor type?

Knowing that the armor value gives a certain type of reduction which can be measured, one could move backwards to find the original reduction off the armor type, and then apply the respective multipliers.

Say I do 100 damage and the first damage output would be ~50 damage after both reductions. The attacked unit has an armor value of 4, so the damage reduction off that would be 19.35%. In this case, it's easy to solve for the type reduction.

Let's assume armor type is first reduced, then armor value.

50 = (100/x)/1.1935
x= 1.675 --> armor type of normal
Each x will have a certain type of armor affliated with it, and the multiplier would then go off that.

Part 2: Buildings and Hardened Skin


If Hardened Skin were to apply, it would still increase the x value and shift the bracket to up. If the value deviates from the standard range of +/- 0.5, then another bonus would kick in to combat the extra reduction from other skills. The higher the deviation, the higher the multiplier.

Again, base damage of 100. Building has fortified armor and 10 of it. Initial damage is 25.

25 = (100/x)/1.375
x= 2.91 --> Armor type of fortified, which is usually 2.0.
Due to being outside of the mean, additional bonuses are added to the multiplier. For every .1 point outside of the range, a 0.1x modifier is added to the set of multipliers before reduction.

Thus, if I were to do 100 damage...

100 * 1.5 * 2.4 /2/1.376 = 130 - 20 damage = 110, which is a 5x increase from the normal 26 or whatever value heroes do on average.

Part 3: Additional sources of reduction

If I were to attack flayed one with max skins, which grant around 60% additional damage reduction and plague armor which reduces damage by 15%. The function doesn't incorporate these skills into the actual reduction, though. Assume 15 armor.
If I do 100 damage normally and only do 10 damage, then the equation can begin.

15 = 100/1.4737x
x= 4.52 Since normal hero reduction's supposed to be 1.00, a major red flag trips in general, as there are other sources of reduction not being included. In this case, it would add a 3.5x multiplier to the other sources, then recalculate damage.

In the event of the x value deviating by +/- 1.00 from any expected value of x, the function automatically assumes that the reduction is due to a hero's skill and applies the 1.0x standard multiplier for heroes.

100 * 1.0 * 5.5 /1.0/1.4737/1.6/1.15 = 202.83. So it'll give a ridiculously huge damage buff if the foes have additional damage reduction only associated with tanks or special hero skills.

Part 4: Normal use.

If a hero had neither of these reductions, it would go as followed:

Assuming a 100 damage hit would be reduced by the particular reduction value associated with the armor value, i.e. 15 armor --> 47.37% reduction. The initial function would spit out a number equal to damage on strike. Say it spit out 68 damage.

68 = 100/1.4737x
x = 1.0 --> Hero armor type, matches exactly, apply multiplier of 1.0x.

100 * 1.0 * 2.0 /1.4737 = 136 damage.
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Post by Glycine on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:17 pm

Modified some of the skills. You get a lot more for lightning field when you up your innate to get your final skill compared to the other two, or at least that's how I'll plan it.

Is it possible to remove the yellow cross for stats and put a skill in its place?
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Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:52 pm

hmm, while i like your math, there are some flaws.

you can *only* get the end reduction ever.

what if something happens like this: a unit has 3 armor and fortified type
you would get... like (50% reduction to hero damage, then about 15% reduction due to armor.)
you would get total 65% reduction that you could figure out. the only number you can get using the wc3 engin

now what happens if a unit has regular unit armor and 20 armor.
you might get the same 65% reduction value.

how do you tell what is what?

if you could get the armor number without relying soley on the end reduction value, it would be possible.

but atm your working with 2 variables, so its not possible to get a value for both.


however:
on lightning field: i've never liked the random 'last level bonuses' some skills get in other maps.
try to avoid this if you can.

i liked the bounce on the innate effect.
the scatter effect should possibly move to solar pulse?

that way you can put the double bounce on the lightning field.

also: i would like to see some effects of lightning field become passive.
that way you can disable the passive effects to fire off a bolt of lightning using the narby charged units.

see if you can work with that maby?

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Post by Glycine on Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:27 pm

Is there any order in which damage is ignored/reduced?

For autocast spells, can you make the active click version of the spell different from the autocast passive?

And they aren't even technically last level bonuses. I just wanted to apply another active effect and needed another spell/slot to do so. Also, the scatter is a special part of Harbringer of the Storm, so I don't want to take it from that. That's why I needed two spell slots to express the entirety of one spell.

Using the charge on surrounding units to fire a bolt of lightning isn't a bad idea, though.
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Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:36 pm

sorry, yes you can hide the atribute bonus icon.

and i mean the 'last level' bonus on the inital lightning field where it suddenly bounces only on the last level of the skill.

and yes there is an order to reduction, but you can still only ever get the final number

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Post by Glycine on Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:20 pm

Updated mostly the ults.
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Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:15 am

yay discussion!!

warscythe: 10/20/30/40% chance to deal pure damage on attacks. (i suggest removing the +str, it seems like an unnessesary buff for that skill)
disruption fields: 55/70/85/100% of the necron lord's attack becomes magic damage

lightning field:
passive. whenever a unit under the effect of lightning field is attacked, its attacker takes 2/3/4% of its max life in damage, and it gains one static charge. (the basic ult should be able to activate and have an effect that deals with static charges... perhaps an aoe purge around charged units... i duno)

herald of the storms/innate effect:
scatters drop pods
when an unit is attacked, the damage done to the attacker also bounces to the nearest enemy.
gains new skill: lightning strike:
removes all static charges from nearby units, and disables lightning field for x seconds.
casts a number of chain lightnings at the target. One chain lightning per charged unit, with each chain lightning having bounces equal to the charges on the unit.

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Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:38 pm

gly, your multiple ability choices are a BITCH to code -_-

took me forever just to code out the system that allows the selection of skills

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Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:21 pm

problem gly, theres no way to make the Necron Lord ranged without erasing all of his previous skill selections

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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Empty Re: [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

Post by Glycine on Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:13 pm

Then mandate that he must get the skill that changes his range at level 1 and all other skills have to be picked at level 2.
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Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:32 pm

lol thats a slightly unfair restriction XD

but its ok! ive thought of a way to fix that issue (its just gona cost me a bunch more coding Razz)

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Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:53 pm

also, i need icons for the following skills:

staff of light (i have staff of silence from wc3 - orchid's malevolence from dota)
warscythe (i have cleave from wc3)
disruption field

nightmare shroud (gly, could you find that icon again >.>)
veil of darkness (i have animate dead from wc3)

phylactery
phase field
chronometron

solar pulse (i have teleport from wc3)
lightning field (looking for a better icon)
resurection orb (i have orb of venom from wc3)

i also wouldnt mind giving him a new model

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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Empty Re: [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:07 pm

nightmare shroud
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_5865_btn

veil of darkness
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_11544_btn

chronometron
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_3274_btn

phase shifter
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_11635_btn

phylactery
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_9718_btn

solar pulse
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_5385_btn

lightning strike, which one?
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_10341_btn [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_11599_btn [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_8377_btn [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_8149_btn [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_10972_btn

Awaken the Tomb
[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icons_11124_btn

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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Empty Re: [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:16 pm

the second one is in use by the farseer (eldritch storm) btw [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Icon_razz
and im not sold on the first one. it looks almost more chain-lightning-y

oh: and hes done Very Happy

cept for the (heavy)destroyer models

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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Empty Re: [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

Post by Glycine on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:24 pm

Simplicity seems best.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/icons-541/btnlightningbolt-135172/?prev=search%3Dbolt%26r%3D20%26d%3Dlist%26page%3D2

Congrats, by the way. :]

All that's left is Zoey for round 1?

There's still Chaos and the Eldar to at least examine in a little better detail.
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[COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes Empty Re: [COMPLETE] Necron Lord Changes

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:33 pm

zoey and autarch yeah Razz

and you like the yellow lightning dont you Razz
even the the bolt is blue in game >.>

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