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Current Version: v0.0.01A

Alpha version


Changelogs to come



Poll

Changes to the way I release versions? (read the thread)

Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_vote_lcap63%Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_vote_rcap 63% [ 5 ]
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_vote_lcap38%Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_vote_rcap 38% [ 3 ]

Total Votes : 8

Latest topics
» With everyone dead
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 05, 2020 5:09 am by Occuli.Imperator.Aquillon

» Faction creeps
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 21, 2014 12:49 am by Grass Hopper

» [SCII] [Inquisition] Hector Rex
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 18, 2014 9:06 am by Grass Hopper

» [necrons] Orikan, the Diviner
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 16, 2014 5:58 pm by Grass Hopper

» Talent System
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 15, 2014 10:59 am by Grass Hopper

» Capture Points system
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 12, 2014 2:36 pm by Grass Hopper

» [SCII] [Orks] Warboss(es)
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 12, 2014 11:44 am by Grass Hopper

» Game Guide
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 11, 2014 2:12 pm by Grass Hopper

» [Inquisition] Mordrak
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 10, 2014 3:28 pm by Grass Hopper

» [inquiition] Kaldor Draigo
Slight Disagreements on Fluff I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 10, 2014 3:07 pm by Grass Hopper

Version Progress
Changes for v0.02.0A
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||||||||||||||||||||[] [Heroes]
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff

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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:27 pm

ZebioLizard wrote:There's really not enough info on outsider to actually do a hero (I refuse to do like grass and make a void dragon >.>)

Iquisitor is good though.

*cough*

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And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:49 pm

The-Observer wrote:I would like to see you make One of the incarnates of the C'tan (Outsider, Deciever, Night Bringer) or an Inquisitor.

Outsider
Deceiver
Nightbringer
Inquisitor #1
Torquemada Coteaz

enjoy Very Happy

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warning! very-stubborn, sarcastic, self-important, argumentative developer detected!

And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by ZebioLizard on Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:59 am

Grass Hopper wrote:
ZebioLizard wrote:There's really not enough info on outsider to actually do a hero (I refuse to do like grass and make a void dragon >.>)

Iquisitor is good though.

*cough*

I DO NOT RATE FANCRAP.

That's all speculation so I refuse to have anything with that sort of shit.

The rest however, are fine.
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Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 am

lol. There has to be something to go off... Cause someone else suggested an outsider build with mostly the same skillnames.

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warning! very-stubborn, sarcastic, self-important, argumentative developer detected!

And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by ZebioLizard on Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:57 pm

Yeah, very fluffy and sketchy background provided by an Imperium trooper discussing whats going on with the outsider.
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Glycine on Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:34 pm

Well, Zebio, I like and hate your opinion at the same time.

Sort of hate, because you rag on creativity. But there's value in your viewpoint, as in why there shouldn't be primarchs. There's just not enough on them to make an accurate guess as to not only why but also how they might figure into the game, since they are dead/missing/twiddling their thumbs on Daemon Worlds. (Minus Angron)

However, you'll still run into the same wall I ran into, which is Grass. There's always been a stated bias towards gameplay and away from fluff, hence why the Void Dragon got in, somehow (Coughdeuscough). If it were up to me, I wouldn't probably have put any of the C'tan in, because it's hard enough to get data about anything they could do. But it's done and I'm not about to try and convince Grass to modify a hero because of the fluff. I've been down that road too many times, and I don't like the effort it takes to convince a boulder.

That said, "fancrap" is apparently too unpure for you, so what are your suggestions for Void Dragon, it being speculation? Unless you have a suggestion to either fix Void Dragon to something he "might" be, given the current evidence, or to take him out of the game in a manner Grass "might" agree with, don't call bullshit on people who try to work within the system given.

I can readily admit there are flaws within that build of the outsider, both in terms of gameplay and in terms of fluff. But there are some things that just aren't covered by the fluff, whether by design or by accident. Maybe, when they will it, such material will come out. Until then, though, your attitude towards material is like a Thorian Inquisitor, which I find rather distasteful.

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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by ZebioLizard on Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:14 pm

I wouldn't probably have put any of the C'tan in

There's PLENTY of info on deciever and nightbringer. They even have unit stats and abilities in the necron codex one can use for them. Plenty of lore behind them and what they've done, and various other things that show things that CAN BE USED!


as in why there shouldn't be primarchs.

Now that the horus herasy books have been released since I've made that statement, I cannot fully support that statement anymore. (Magnus is an awesome cyclops ftw)


That said, "fancrap" is apparently too unpure for you, so what are your suggestions for Void Dragon, it being speculation? Unless you have a suggestion to either fix Void Dragon to something he "might" be, given the current evidence, or to take him out of the game in a manner Grass "might" agree with, don't call bullshit on people who try to work within the system given.

Make heros that are actually having stats, abilities, ways of being given weapons. While the horus heresy revealed a bit about the void dragon. He should have never been added in any way shape or form. There are plenty of heroes that have never been added, both from books, codex, and other such things. And I've tried before, he refused. I've even made an ogryn hero from the codex and there's about seven other heroes that can be made from the book, there's a crapload unused in the chaos Daemons book, and various others.


I mean the bloody FLAYED ONE got in, the fact void dragon was overall added was unacceptable with so many other heroes unadded! Hell, even the SQUATS are viable as they've got stats (they just got eaten in the end afterall, not fully retconned from the universe)


Thorian Inquisitor

I want to resurrect the emperor into a mortal body? scratch

Either way, I will be reviewing heros that I find, like most if not nearly every other hero within the section that isn't based off speculation.

This is my opinion afterall, you don't have to accept it, merely tolerate it. I hate things based off inconsistant lore by what accounts to an IMPERIAL GUARD SCHOLAR! It'd be like making tau as described by the guardsmen handbook, unable to aim straight with their crossed eyes.
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Dec 24, 2010 6:37 pm

Glycine wrote:However, you'll still run into the same wall I ran into, which is Grass.
But it's done and I'm not about to try and convince Grass to modify a hero because of the fluff.
and I don't like the effort it takes to convince a boulder.
in a manner Grass "might" agree with

Sad

but seriously, hes right Razz (see sig)

and first and formost in my mind is gameplay aspects of anything.
while I will be slightly against including a hero that makes no sense fluff wise, or skills that are so obviously made up, if its a good solid concept and it works well, I dont have a real issue including it in the map


just by the way gly...

I can readily admit there are flaws within that build of the outsider, both in terms of gameplay...
what were these gameplay flaws? because hes coded and working >.> edit: so its prolly best if these are discussed before hes eventually implemented /edit



ZebioLizard wrote:Make heros that are actually having stats, abilities, ways of being given weapons. While the horus heresy revealed a bit about the void dragon. He should have never been added in any way shape or form. There are plenty of heroes that have never been added, both from books, codex, and other such things. And I've tried before, he refused. I've even made an ogryn hero from the codex and there's about seven other heroes that can be made from the book, there's a crapload unused in the chaos Daemons book, and various others.


I mean the bloody FLAYED ONE got in, the fact void dragon was overall added was unacceptable with so many other heroes unadded! Hell, even the SQUATS are viable as they've got stats (they just got eaten in the end afterall, not fully retconned from the universe)

The reason heroes like Void Dragon make it into the game when there exist other, more suitible, heroes is because implementation of heroes is largely based on how good i think the suggestion is.
My creative genious comes sporadically, if at all, so any hero that gets in will mostly likely be suggested by others. So i usually only work with what people give me. And people (Deus) chose to give me good skillsets for heroes that are... more out there... in terms of fluff and rules.
If you think there are some heroes that should be in, Suggest some. (after fleshing out tau, nids, and dark eldar, ill move onto splitting the imperium tavern into marines/inquisition/guard etc, and the eldar tavern into eldar/harlequins)

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warning! very-stubborn, sarcastic, self-important, argumentative developer detected!

And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Post by ZebioLizard on Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:48 pm

what were these gameplay flaws? because hes coded and working >.> edit: so its prolly best if these are discussed before hes eventually implemented /edit

*facepalm* So many heroes, yet you pick the worst of the trash. Congrats. No
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Glycine on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:31 pm

Well, Zebio, it's nice to hear your opinion after the fact. Especially considering EVERY single hero build has been up for at least 3 months without any significant changes.

If it's trash, I would comment on your inability to judge it within any time frame. Don't judge things you haven't been around to actually talk about, much less contribute to. Or rather, why don't you try and fix up that trash in a constructive manner?

I can't make grass choose heroes to code. It would be nice if he put up a list stating which heroes he was working on so that we could suggest heroes, though.

That said, so Zebio, what's wrong with the Outsider, in terms of gameplay?
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Post by ZebioLizard on Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:36 pm

Well, Zebio, it's nice to hear your opinion after the fact. Especially considering EVERY single hero build has been up for at least 3 months without any significant changes.

Except for the fact I don't often read every single forum, and I'm often gone. It seems I will have to rectify this in case someone decides to make something like those two heroes ever again.

If it's trash, I would comment on your inability to judge it within any time frame. Don't judge things you haven't been around to actually talk about, much less contribute to. Or rather, why don't you try and fix up that trash in a constructive manner?
This post has been around for two days and I've begun to regret it.

I can't make grass choose heroes to code
Seriously, this has no contribution to the topic at hand but you've been bringing it up. Have you become his lover or something and I missed it? Because I really have no clue why you keep bringing this up like I'm trying to influence you to get him to remove it.

That said, so Zebio, what's wrong with the Outsider, in terms of gameplay?

I'm not touching that post or the hero in general. I don't care if it's the most creative hero in the existence of warcraft 3. My opinion is staying my opinion. And the last bloody call on it is that I AM NOT REVIEWING THAT HERO.
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Post by Glycine on Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:11 pm

What I'm saying is that he will choose heroes as he wills, whether the skillsets of those heroes are stupid or not in your opinion or in my opinion either. Even if you and I want to prevent a hero from getting in on fluff issues, like Primarchs and C'tan, it's not as if I haven't ALREADY tried to deal with the issues you raise.

Why do you think Grass agreed with me? We've been through this dance of fluff vs gameplay and while fluff is a very powerful factor in influencing how heroes get in, it's ultimately grass's view of how it will affect the gameplay that decided which heroes are chosen. Therefore, as much as I'd love to support you in your crusade to make the map perfect according to the fluff that's already been written, Grass won't have any of it. And if you can convince him, with your zeal and fervor, all the better.

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Post by ZebioLizard on Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:15 pm

I am quite in favor of gameplay vs fluff at times. I mean I don't argue for weapons and all that being in fluff favor. (bolter being so weak for example)

It's just the lore when it comes to adding heroes that nobody knows anything truly the hell about is what miffs me. Thats the ONLY gameplay vs fluff where i were fully side with fluff
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Post by Glycine on Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:42 pm

Well, I've acknowledged the same thing, that gameplay should usually trump fluff in terms of mechanics. That said, I will not deny creativity if it even has a semblance of realistic adherence to the background. I don't like taking characters from books, because they take too much freedom at times. I'm firmly against putting in Primarchs or figures that have died or went missing long ago.

I am, however, curious as to see how people would interpret things that have not been explicitly stated. The C'tan already exist, in part, within the tabletop, so while I did frown upon putting the Void Dragon in, it's not because the Void Dragon is a C'tan. It's because I don't agree with the particular interpretation Deus took with him. It works, but I don't have to agree with it regardless.

We aren't writing about an obscure character, Zebio, in relation to the Outsider. To be honest, I would take the account of an Eldar Farseer, however sparse it may be, to be something to work off of. It would be amazing if, of course, they released any other fluff on him, but I doubt I will be here when they do so. I do not have the luxury to chill quietly and wait for games-workshop to release anything new, so I am perfectly willing to improvise as needed.
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:27 am

hmm. Zebio wont look at it because its a hero drawn from obscure fluff and incomplete references.

I respect that opinion, but it will make it into the game.
Im not asking you to love it, but i would prefer it if you dont hate the game for it.

for the most part tho, i dont like heroes based on obscure fluff references, if i cant see the hero in relation to 40k, or dont know of it, i usually cant see it in the game... so for the most part i wont go implementing random invented characters with no real basis in the fluff.

so dont worry Zebio, this wont happen too often.

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warning! very-stubborn, sarcastic, self-important, argumentative developer detected!

And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Post by ZebioLizard on Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:54 am

It's already happened twice over with very obscure characters. Even with a forum full of viable heroes and builds they got in over plenty of others.

For now though, this post is simply done it seems.
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Post by Glycine on Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:04 pm

What do you mean? xD This post is by no means done. We've finished a discussion on obscure characters, but your hero corner is still open, no?
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Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:22 pm

ZebioLizard wrote:It's already happened twice over with very obscure characters. Even with a forum full of viable heroes and builds they got in over plenty of others.

and how many obscure heroes are left suggested? and how many of those (if any exist, i dont recall) are even likely to get in? >.>

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And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by DeusMechanicus on Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:30 pm

In all fairness... Most of the skills for the Outsider are based, largely, upon the following quote - "It was silent as the void, and to look upon it was to know terror. It drifted above us with liquid grace, and its gaze caused madness and despair where ever it fell. Those it came near took their own lives rather then endure its hellish presence." - Morilla, Harlequin Shadowseer (Necron Codex, pg 25)

Emissaries comes from the fact all the C'tan lead a personal Necron army. While there is nothing to support what the servants of the Outsider are capable of (even the Dragon's legion has a description somewhere, if only a line or two), it isn't a stretch of the imagination to see them as they are described in the build.

For his ultimate - "I have seen the writhing, inverted geometries of the Outsider curl and tighten around his harvest as they clamber and crawl like vermin around his illogical labyrinth. Barely a shred of sanity exists in the broken minds of his prey; enough to comprehend the fact that they cannot escape this hideous paradigm, but not enough to quell the traitorous seed of hope that slithers unfulfilled within their breast." - Farseer Maechu of Ulthwé (Necron Codex, pg 63)

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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by ZebioLizard on Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:43 pm

Grass Hopper wrote:
ZebioLizard wrote:It's already happened twice over with very obscure characters. Even with a forum full of viable heroes and builds they got in over plenty of others.

and how many obscure heroes are left suggested? and how many of those (if any exist, i dont recall) are even likely to get in? >.>

*Points to Dues newest hero Valdor, along with Dedoc the electro priest* There's a few others, but I thought to point out those first.

What do you mean? xD This post is by no means done. We've finished a discussion on obscure characters, but your hero corner is still open, no?


For now, I have no more real interest to work on this topic for now after all this. Maybe in a bit, but for the immediate. I have none.

What I really want for now is all the posts to be trimmed back to Page 3. To this last post of mine before the "discussion" started.

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Post by Glycine on Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:22 pm

Do you have a substantive reason for Grass, me, or another mod to delete a group of posts on some basis? It seems to me you're butthurt about there even being a "different" opinion than yours existing. I can always take the selected group of posts and put them in another post, if that suits your fancy. *And I did*

Just because it may be your topic doesn't mean you have sole control over who or what is posted in it.

But, since it is Christmas, I'll give you a gift.
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Post by ZebioLizard on Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:17 pm

Because it was offtopic, a moderator like you "should" be able to understand what that means.

It contributed nothing in general related to hero's except for the fashion of lore and was overtaking the topic.
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:41 am

Glycine wrote:Do you have a substantive reason for Grass, me, or another mod to delete a group of posts on some basis? It seems to me you're butthurt about there even being a "different" opinion than yours existing. I can always take the selected group of posts and put them in another post, if that suits your fancy. *And I did*

Just because it may be your topic doesn't mean you have sole control over who or what is posted in it.

But, since it is Christmas, I'll give you a gift.

ZebioLizard wrote:Because it was offtopic, a moderator like you "should" be able to understand what that means.

It contributed nothing in general related to hero's except for the fashion of lore and was overtaking the topic.

This.
he has every right Razz

also. play nicely.



zebioLizard wrote:*Points to Dues newest hero Valdor, along with Dedoc the electro priest* There's a few others, but I thought to point out those first.
and again, how many are even likely to get in?

im focused atm on the races with few heroes (necrons, tau, dark eldar).
one of the main reasons that the outsider is getting in is because of the overal lack of necron suggsetions (and to round out the C'tan >.>)
there are currently (iirc) 4 suggested necron heroes: nightbringer, deceiver, outsider, pariah.
the nightbringer is coded on paper, so hes 1/3 of the way there, and the outsider was recently the topic of discussion among forum people, bringing my attention to it, and getting me into working on/with it.
if you think i should focus my attention on heroes that exist mroe reliably from a fluff perspective, post in the existing necron hero suggestion threads. start a discussion and ill prolly get around to it. i already like all the necron suggestions

anyway, despite the existance of non-fluffy hero suggestions, it isnt likely that any will get in any time in the near/forseeable future

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warning! very-stubborn, sarcastic, self-important, argumentative developer detected!

And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Post by Fairemont on Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:06 pm

We should just use my Mandrake and Psyker heroes and call it good.

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Hero Creation: Pending...
Mandrake Champion: Kheradruakh
Rogue Primaris Psyker: Aeos Valerin
Slaaneshi Daemonette : The Masque
Fairemont
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:09 pm

Lol faire Razz
Both are going in eventually

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And unto the masses, He doth spoke:
"Behold The Stuff! It Is Good!"
And the Stuff was good.

Heroes:
Commander Farsight (colab - implemented) - Ku'gaath Plaguefather(incomplete) - Ilyana Arienal(incomplete) - Harlequin Shadowseer(incomplete) - Modular Tau Battlesuit(sandbox)
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Slight Disagreements on Fluff Empty Re: Slight Disagreements on Fluff

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