Latest Beta

http://www.mediafire.com/?xnmymnynoim


Problems:
Chaplain Ult knocking back stuff not even hit, and rapin the crap outta people.
Grey Knight Sanctuary when used on Chaplain cause massive lag. Me and Gly think it has to do with his spell shield.
Lucius' Dance reported to be going on longer than should be around chappy.

answers(kinda):
chaplains knockback is on any damage event, not only attacks.
sanctuary has nothing to do with spellshield, cause it doesnt cast spells.
and dance's duration is not affected by outside sources.

ill watch the replay tomorrow prolly.

Counters:
The thing is, Gly said he was no where even near any type of damage and was still getting hit.
Isn't the pushback part of Sanctuary considered a spell?
That's what we are wondering. We don't know what it could be.

Oh! Something not in this replay, but from a beta before this. Commisar can attack allied builds that are at 100%, something that should be only able at 15%. I tested it myself after someone mentioned it, it was right. Tested with other heroes, they weren't able.

Ah, another thing. Pathfinder's markerlight can only reduce armor to their base from agility minus 3.2 armor. Not the huge -28 armor debuff we were thinking about, so check it out.

Also, the armor debuff should last the same time, but the markerlight that applies to the ult should last a little longer, to make it feasible to get all your missiles to actually hit. And should they do pure damage?

Necron Lord's lightning field will need a tad bit of a nerf down to 1/2/3% and a very, very slight mana cost while remaining passive. Or make it not active at all times, but on a cycle of sorts. Plus you need to spell Herald right. xD;;

Vindi is still potentially OP, even though we supposedly nerfed his attack speed. Can we reduce the stun time and % on the invis? Why does it stun again? If anything, precise aim should have a little chance to stun. And the slow off precise aim needs a nerf. I'm moving at 200 ms, which is too slow.

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Having played Pathfinder a second time, he can either deny a lane completely with the threat of markerlights or spread them out. I played him both in only top, so it was somewhat easier to manage, but I feel 1 tower at center rune works, with either 2 towers in each area, (Like the top and bottom lanes at top) or 4 towers in one lane. The silent hunter thing doesn't work so well, though. I found it didn't help me as much late game because I wasn't near the trees.

If anything, I would reduce the armor loss to 5, and increase the number of towers to 10 so that he can seed the map with them, with a cap of 5 or 6 markerlights at any time on an individual unit.

What about void dragon? This message kept on popping up on the screen, and I did something strange to half-use my ult, it did substantial damage, and then i could use it again w/o cd. Unsure what happened though.

cellrawr wrote:Counters:
The thing is, Gly said he was no where even near any type of damage and was still getting hit.
Isn't the pushback part of Sanctuary considered a spell?
That's what we are wondering. We don't know what it could be.

the self damage on the ult happens before the knockback's damage event expires. that could cause some of it, and alot of things are able to cause damage without attacking or doing anything. ill know when i get a look at the replay.
no the knockback isnt considered a spell. its triggerd. the only spellcasting involved with sanctuary is the initial cast, and the stun when units lose all their mana.

Glycine wrote:Ah, another thing. Pathfinder's markerlight can only reduce armor to their base from agility minus 3.2 armor. Not the huge -28 armor debuff we were thinking about, so check it out.

Also, the armor debuff should last the same time, but the markerlight that applies to the ult should last a little longer, to make it feasible to get all your missiles to actually hit. And should they do pure damage?

Necron Lord's lightning field will need a tad bit of a nerf down to 1/2/3% and a very, very slight mana cost while remaining passive. Or make it not active at all times, but on a cycle of sorts. Plus you need to spell Herald right. xD;;

Vindi is still potentially OP, even though we supposedly nerfed his attack speed. Can we reduce the stun time and % on the invis? Why does it stun again? If anything, precise aim should have a little chance to stun. And the slow off precise aim needs a nerf. I'm moving at 200 ms, which is too slow.






Having played Pathfinder a second time, he can either deny a lane completely with the threat of markerlights or spread them out. I played him both in only top, so it was somewhat easier to manage, but I feel 1 tower at center rune works, with either 2 towers in each area, (Like the top and bottom lanes at top) or 4 towers in one lane. The silent hunter thing doesn't work so well, though. I found it didn't help me as much late game because I wasn't near the trees.

If anything, I would reduce the armor loss to 5, and increase the number of towers to 10 so that he can seed the map with them, with a cap of 5 or 6 markerlights at any time on an individual unit.

markerlight: well good, theres a limit to its op-ness then.
ult: the missles are all fired at all targets depending on the moment the spell is cast. if the debuff goes away the missles will still continue to fire and will still hit the target (Even if you cant see them) and the missles are a spell, so its not possible to make them pure damage. ( i could however give them 25% more damage? its the same thing)

lightning field: will do
and ive already finished the Harbinger spell for the next beta.

vindi: invis stuns cause its pinning. heres an idea (cause lowerin the stun chance ruins it at lower ias): the chance increases the longer he doesnt attack, to a maximum of current values. (so lets assume that max stun chance occurs at about 2.5 seconds from attacking(thats 75% of his base ias))
and the self slow is 25% is it not?


tau again:
the sensor tower threat changes VERY MUCH with a full map. play it without using only top and then make some judgements.
and no, im NOT incrasing the tower limit to 10 thats like giving him 10 free perma squigs. wayy to much map control.

also, yes, silent hunter fails.
i do have an idea for a more supportive spell tho.

Err, grass..

*facepalm* That's not what I mean. I know the missiles will still hit if they were markerlighted when the missiles were fired. The hard thing is, I found that it's genuinely hard to get 4+ markerlight hits in a good game without one markerlight duration running out so you can get maximum damage from your ult.

And I know the changes behind a full map, and they don't bode well for Pathfinder. It means your markerlights are about 200% less effective because less people are around you and people can just stick out of the range of your markerlights and gank you from the shadows if you try to stack markerlight hits. One time, I stacked all my sensors in one lane, to get the most out of them when I ulted, and the other team was smart enough to simply push the other lanes. Either I leave them there and my ult becomes useless, or I take the time to move them and open up that lane again, which smart people can pick up upon.


And if you don't stack markerlight hits, and have your outposts spread across the map, the best you can do is catch someone with less than 250 health. Because each markerlight buff only lasts for so long and the ult has a relatively long cooldown, you can't mark a target, fire, mark and fire again as would be expected, since each markerlight can fire its own individual seeker missile.

Either way, he is way, way, way too tough to play well right now for the average player.

Here's my flat line:

Lower the armor debuff per markerlight and make it work. Otherwise, it's generally pointless to keep a bugged skill in. Even if that limit seems "convenient" for you, I'm going to demand it be fixed. If each markerlight can trigger its own seeker missile, then that would be an adequate fix as well, such that you can place them on back lanes and get more reliability from the ult.

And it would help if you read my post, you know. That's what pathfinders do. They scout and provide map control. That's all they do. No huge guns, usually, no invisibility, no mobility (other than Devilfishes). So what they do is set up the map for the rest of the team and help finish off other heroes.

with a cap of 5 or 6 markerlights at any time on an individual unit.

select them all and tab through them?
i know what you mean... now XD
how about: the debuff lasts forever as long as they stay within casting range. beyond that it keeps its current duration.

the skill isnt bugged. it works fine, it just doesnt last long enougn to make it usefull outside of a single lane.
and as to seeker missle, i could give it like a 2 second cd and have it target (unit/point) and the (unit/nearest unit) will take one seeker missle and remove one markerlight stack.
and i read your post. 10 towers. in any context is too much.
and notice i didnt have an issue with 10 stacked markerlights

Except you haven't given me any answer if you're actually going to fix the markerlights's armor debuff stopping at base minus 3.2. *looks at watch*

Here's an idea, though (again!). Give each markerlight tower the seeker missile skill, with the same cooldown it has. 2 second cooldowns can be abused when the markerlight skill has such a short cooldown as it is. Seeker Missiles from towers can be normal, but give the particular missile the pathfinder fires an upgrade, like a Darkstar (Neutron Pulses) or Icefire (EM pulses) Warhead.

Additionally, here's another interesting skill. The Tau can utilize a remote drone network, which sits above the battlefield. Within a 24" radius of a certain point, all enemy units will get a markerlight debuff. It would certainly be a way to improve the reach of the ult.

Well for Sanctuary, it has to be something with the pushback. Because it would only happen when Gly used it right on top of me. There were times where he was blocking off a lane with it and I would run up near it to find him doing that, and it wouldn't lag.

Glycine wrote:Except you haven't given me any answer if you're actually going to fix the markerlights's armor debuff stopping at base minus 3.2. *looks at watch*

not possible. its a wc3 thing then cause markerlight is entirely hard-coded (the effects anyway)

and right... 2 second cooldown wouldnt work that much...
well, hows this: the ult refreshes if (certain conditions) are met...
i dont quite know what those are atm, but something that would allow the rapid use across the map and multiple units, but not be cheap with innate

figured out!!
chappy knockback: caused by plague armor
lucius' dance around chappy: interaction on two same-based buffs (dance and litanies)

the lag is still a mystery tho

Anyway back to Void. The message came up whenever I used the immobilising grip skill. It said the int of the hero, and damage blah blah blah. But before that it said something regarding a Debug, should I be worried?

ha, no dont worry

i wasnt convinced that will of the dragon was dealing int based damage properly, so i put a debug message to make sure it was getting the right numbers.
its all good i just forgot to take it out.

Ok, and I think I was hit by some spell/attack during the cast delay for Voids ult. The cd was refreshed, there was damage dealt but no real 'pull'. Unsure if this was a one off though :/

Eclipse makes me smile. xD Perma invisibility for 120 seconds is like Priestess's ult on giant steroids.