[Incomplete] Tyranid Trygon

Trygon Prime


ARMOR: 3 base
-Str:27 +2.6
Agi:23 +2.1
Int:11 +1.3
Move speed: 290

Innate: Tunneling
The Trygon burrows around leaving tunnels for other tyranids to exit through.
-- The Tygon turns into the burrow model and can move 2500/3000/3500/4000/4500/5000 max distance before it is forced to exit the tunnel. 3/4/6/7/9 tunnel entrances/exits max 75/105/135/165/195/225 mana. 4,5,6 have 70%/105%/140%/175%/210% of str for damage and 100/125/150/175/200 AoE knockback to that knocks back all units of 250 range from epicenter of tunnel(enough to keep them out of melee range)
50 sec CD with a 7 sec cast time.

After a player controlled unit enters a tunnel the player then selects another tunnel entrance/exit then chooses the exit command. command takes 3 seconds to activate

Tunnels have enough hitpoints to withstand 4 hits minimum but no more than 7

A tunnel cannot be created if there is already the max number of available tunnels used. (better know where you wanna place them.)(if possible make the tunnels available to attack by the trygon too, if not can make them targetable by everyone)

Skill 1: Scything Talons' Rush
Trygons are armed with 2 pairs of scything talons rush their opponent striking with a blinding fury of swipes sacrificing a small amount of strength for a large boost in attack speed.
--Trygon approaches and strikes the target 2/3/4/5 times dealing 90% of actual damage. These attacks cannot miss the target at all. (Passive) If the Trygon were to miss its target the Trygon has a 40/50/60/70% chance to have not actually missed the target. 22 sec CD. 600 cast range then close to 100 melee range for attacks. The move speed of the Trygon is increased by 20% until it reaches its target.

Skill 2: Scythed Tail
Trygons have tails as sharp as their talons making it very easy to trip and cut enemy's legs. As the Trygon attacks its prey it will swirl its tail to trip and slow its prey ensuring that it does not get away.
--The tail deals 70/125/190/260 with a ministun(trip) .25/.5/.75/1.1 secs or so. and 5/7/9/12% MS lost from leg wounds with a 5 sec duration. 14 sec CD

Skill 3: Shadow in the Warp
Trygon Primes are under so much influence from the Hive mind that they actually disrupt other spells being casted.
--When enemies cast a spell within 700/800/900/1000AOE of the Trygon, they have their mana BURNED away at 30/40/50/60% of the spell's mana cost; and a 5/7/9/11% movespeed and attackspeed slow to the enemy that casts a spell within 300/400/500/600AOE for 3/4/5/6 sec. 7 second CD

Ultimate:Containment Spines
Trygon Primes have spines that run the length of their bodies that collect the static charge created when a trygon moves. These spines harness the charge in such a way that it can be discharged at range.
--The Trygon Prime has an electric aura 300/350/400 AOE and does 7/11/15 damage per 800 units moved up to a max of 35/45/55 damage per second second to all units. Also the Trygon can unleash this charge to deal 14/22/30 damage per 250 units moved up to a max of 220/350/500 damage at 500 range. After the discharge the distance moved resets to 0 (aura= no mana cost(not like immolation that has mana cost.)) 120/100/80 second cooldown

Few things to note:

All heroes start off with 150 base health and 0 mana. We'll have a lot of Agility Tyranids, so it would be a good time to diversify and perhaps make Trygon Strength? Just my two cents on that. (27/23/11)

Your stat gains should be totaled to roughly 6.1, so +2.6/2.2/1.3 would be a good estimate.

Innate: Since we all designed it together, it looks good so far. Perhaps have a function where any allied creep units near the entrance of the tunnel will be transported to the exit over a period of time depending on how long it takes?

Scything Talons: How about some sort of active skill representing Scything Talons, like a skill in which the Trygon goes to a hero and starts to ravage him with those talons for an amount of damage you can determine along with any effects?

Fleet and Toxin Sacs seem a tad plain, to be honest. For fleet, Scythe Tail could serve as an alternative to give him an AoE attack in melee range. For Toxin Sacs, perhaps something related to it being a Synapse Creature/having Shadow in the Warp could be good.

Ult: It's good so far, although an additional effect or two might be interesting. The AoE and damage on the aura is fine. Perhaps for every 1500/1000/750 distance traveled underground since the last use of the ult up to 9000 distance, the Trygon fires an additional bolt that does 10/20/30% of the ult's original damage, with no hero unit taking more than 10/20/30% of their health in damage? In addition, for the same underground distance progressions (1500/1000/750), the Trygon gains 1/2/3% damage reduction that fades 1% every 1/2/3 seconds.

HP: 690
Mana: 143 (Using 13 per int, I think its higher)
Armor: 3
Str
Str: 27 + 2.6 (109.4 + bonus stats)
Agi: 23 + 2.2 (95.8 + bonus stats)
Int: 11 + 1.3 (62.2 + bonus stats)
Movement: 295 (With level 4 Fleet will have 315. Which is alot faster then most heroes with Jetpack).

a_broken_twig wrote:Innate: Tunneling
The Trygon burrows around leaving tunnels for other tyranids to exit through.
-- The Tygon turns into the burrow model and can move 2500/3000/3500/4000/4500/5000 max distance before it is forced to exit the tunnel. (no limit to tunnels and not sure whether tunnels will be connected beyond the one that leads to it.) 75/105/135/165/195/225 mana. 70 second cooldown

I can see one really good purpose to this skill. If Grasshopper found a way to make only Tyranids able to use the tunnel then it would be an awesome support for a Tyranid team. But other then that its a 5000 range blink.

a_broken_twig wrote:Skill 1: Scything Talons
Trygons are armed with 2 pairs of scything talons making it incredible hard to miss.
--Trygon has a 15/20/25/30% chance to not miss a target when they have evasion and has a 5%/8%/11%/15% attack rate increase
(Passive)

Could you make this skill:
Scything Talons: Allows the Trygons to slice nearby units dealing extra damage and increasing his attack speed by 2/3/4/5% per unit hit for 15 seconds? Deals 110/125/140/155% damage? (Crit for 155% damage, 1.55) Short cooldown and medium mana cost. Range of 250/275/300/325.

Kinda like that.

a_broken_twig wrote:Skill 2: Fleet
Trygons are not only large creatures but they are also very fast. But they cannot maintain these speeds for very long due to their large sizes
-- The Trygon Prime gains 15%/20%/25%/30% move speed for 7/9/11/15 seconds.

I was thinking something like:
Fleet: Whenever Trygons runs in one direction they build momentum causing them to gain speed. Gives Trygons +5/10/15/20 base movement speed. Trygon gains 4/6/8/10 movement speed every second while going in one direction without stopping. (Could be % based, but I'd thought a number might make it a little stronger). Passive.

a_broken_twig wrote:Skill 3: Toxin Sacks
Trygons can have sacks filled with toxins that ooze onto their talons. These sacks have a chance to wound an enemy no matter how tough it is.
--The Trygon's attacks have a 10%/15%/20%/25% chance to do chaos(pure) damage. In other words negating armor.(Passive)

So you saying it'll cause the attack to deal pure damage? So if your normal attack would deal 100 damage it'll deal 100 pure? This could work well with the Scything Talons. Has a 25% to deal 1.55Xpure damage on skill use. And chaos only negates the armor type. You still deal the % less from reduction.

a_broken_twig wrote:Ultimate:Containment Spines
Trygon Primes have spines that run the length of their bodies that collect the static charge created when a trygon moves. These spines harness the charge in such a way that it can be discharged at range.
--The Trygon Prime has an electric aura 300/350/400 AOE and does 30/40/50 damage per second to all units. Also the Trygon can unleash this charge to deal 200/300/400 damage at range.(maybe add a slow from being hit by a bolt of electricity) aura= no mana cost(not like immolation that has mana cost). 130/110/90 second cooldown

Okay. Sounds like a cool ability.

Containment Spine: When activated causes attack made to the Trygon to activate and cause one of their spines to fire off a static charge, created when Trygons move. Can be activated for an AoE damage with a slow.
Every 1000/900/800 range moved builds one charge. Max of 5/6/7 charges. (Charge gain is a passive ability gained after level 1 ult). Each charge has a 50% to activate when struck when activated. Deals 110% damage to target unit and gives a -10% slow buff for 10 seconds per charge, new charge resets duration. Can be use all the charges to deal 110% weapon damage to all units (spread evenly) in a 600 AoE or up to a max of 50% of Trygons maximum hp. Slows to maximum charge slow (70% to all units within the AoE) for 5 seconds, (due to the static having to be spread over the units).
Duration: 30 seconds
Cooldown: 60
Mana Cost: 200/300/400

Over all a nice hero, just needs some help and some more razzel dazzel.

I like the Son007's idea for the Fleet but it seems more like a Carnifex's Living Battering Ram ability. but i have no problem giving it to a Trygon since they are bigger than carnifexes.

As for Scything Talons it seems like Son007 wants them to be like (Rexxar character from DOTA previously) where his skill got him to attack faster for each hit he had against a certain target; but timed, and against any target, with a critical hit chance.

For the ult I'm kinda lost on what y'all said. It seems like you want to add a Thorn's Aura type thing-Son007. And both of you want it to have a passive buildup on damage(or charges) as it moves through the tunnels or in general. Do you want this to be additional to what it has now, or entirely different

For stats and skill power, I had no idea what to do I just looked at some other heroes and tried to copy total stat gain and total starting stats but will change it after this post, also i didn't want to make him overpowered and get tons of negative feedback

oh and for the tunneling the "other Tyranids to come through" is just flavor text in-game it would obviously be the team. just getting that clarified

For fleet, you can compare the power of the two sets very easily.

Say movement for 5 seconds.

Linear addition: 315 + 10*5 = 365
Exponential addition: 315 + 1.1^5 = 507

So which is more powerful? xD;

I really don't like toxin sacs, though. The Warrior already has a version of them. ._.

For Fleet, it wouldnt activate the second you run in one direction. It'd take like 3 seconds then start adding the ms bonus to him.

For Scything Talons I wanted something like an AoE damage nuke that stills adds the attack speed from your skill. For the ult I was thinking something to were he could fight someone one on one and deal a lot of damage but still have the same effect while in a large group. It wouldnt be like thorns but like a counter-attack. 50% of the time he'll attack back dealing 110% of his damage, (100 attack damage deals 110 to attacker). He still will take the full damage from the attack but it'll allow him to stay close and help him run if he needs too. At max ult level (under current numbers) it'll deal 770% weapon damage spread over the AoE, with a max of 50% of his maximum hp; 3000 hp = max of 1500 damage.

Yeah, that's way too much on the ult. If you're just facing one hero, that's not good at all.

Not to draw any parallels, but what you have sounds almost exactly like lightning field of the Necron Lord, minus the slow and damage release.

Lighting Field deals % damage of the attackers hp. This ult deals % damage of your own attack.

That still doesn't address the fact you can do 1500 damage on a single target with 70% slow. Since he has fleet, a crit, and all manners of nasty goodness, it really doesn't need to be that high.

as a rule, spell effects that deal set X effects that are split over targets in the aoe either suck or are way too powerful (too good against one target, -gly's point- or they become less effective vs multiple targets)

also son, its not possible to get a units attack damage without it attacking, and even then its complicated.

I like son's idea for fleet
and i think the ult *should* have a 'charged' mechanic to it, gain x charges per x distance traveled, then they take x damage per charge when they attack, and can be discharged into nearby enemies for a purge and damage effect.

i dont like toxin sacs (also cause its really hard to do, and chaos damage is just like hero damage when attacking heroes)
toxins should eat away at armor, like deal x damge per point of armor, and reduce x armor over x time. (non stacking on attack buff)

scything talons seems really bland, either the original or son's
well, tbh, ive never liked scything talons as a skill

So it seems like scything talons need lots more flavor and toxin sacs needs to be changed for something else

Since in the table top monstrous creatures don't allow armor saves, how bout i change the Toxin Sacs to something like Montrous Creature's Strength and it will be armor deduction and a chance to knockback/crit/stun, something like that.

For the Scything Talons I don't really feel like making them an AOE attack would be right. I thought I would try to stay true to the table top ideas but if need be I can make it that with some other effect, or maybe it could be an attack that does damage over time and "stuns" both players enemy from being attacked so much player because he is attacking so much for amount of specified time

ok so its been a while since ive been on but about the venom sacks; what if they were poisonous with damage over time,-AS%,-MS% and maybe a crit % to represent the fact that in the table top is does double damage or something like that. the DOT AS/MS% and crit dmg/% need to be lower than normal but what about making the actual poison part of the skill stack.

dont toxin sacs have the 'poisoned weapons' special rule?

yes they do

small updates to some skills. added a casting time to tunneling(7 secs) added a small amount of damage to the scythed tail skill, and a duration to its slow. changed name of Scything Talons to Scything Talons' Rush and added the no miss chance to skill.

What needs to be done to this to make it complete?

shadow in the warp is ridiculously powerful, for one.

scything talons will be alot less effective than it seems on paper. It essentially only gives +ias for -damage% right?
and the bonus ms on kill seems just thrown in there

scyth tail is lame but oh well, it works.

and the ult and innate are good.
but make the strength damage and knockback apply to all levels instead of 4/5/6

atleast i wasnt the only one that thought shadow in the warp was super op

i also thought that the scything talons was weak but wasnt sure how to make it better the ms was just a tack on w/o explanation

I agree with scythed tail being lame but it was that or poison sacs

ya, shadow needs a big numbers nerf.
and how are people supposed to cast if it stuns them when they cast?
also, add a cooldown, remove the manaleak, as they are already being burned

what about the move speed?

very unecessary

took out mana drain; debuff to the burn; changed stun to a slow, is that still too much.

what about his speed is unecessary

It comes from nowhere, of he's killed a hero there are few situations where hell need the bonus ms, and its not much of a boost anyway.

oh. i was talking about his base move speed. you were talking about the move speed from the skill. which by the way the boost that scything talons' rush, before the trygon makes its attacks, is that to slow of a boost.