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[HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

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[HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:50 pm

Cato Sicarius

OOC: I'm going to raise the base stat cap from 61 to 70, because it'll help out more early game with low health/mana figures (When heroes start out with 400 health, you have to waste money getting strength, and I would rather not have the stats of a hero dictate that it must get health in the first five minutes.). I'll also raise stat gain to 6.5 from 6.1.

Stats:
Strength: 27 + 2.6
Agility: 23 + 2.2
Intelligence: 20 + 1.8

Innate: Lightning Assault
All Space Marines make use of the lightning assault, but Sicarius refined such strategy to near-perfection, often committing his forces to battle with the briefest appraisal of the tactical situation. In another man, such unstoppable haste might have seemed reckless, but Sicarius soon proved his ability to rapidly adapt to a chaotic warzone, swiftly marshalling his forces and seizing the advantage.

  • Skill Type: Aura
    Range: 600 range at all levels.
    10/15/20/25/30/35% of Sicarius’s strength is dissipated as movement speed to all friendly units in range. When units engage an enemy for the first time, they gain 10/20/30/40/50/60% attack speed for 1/1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds. A unit has to wait 10 seconds before it can trigger this attack speed buff again.


Skill 1: Talassarian Tempest Blade
Born into one of Talassar's ascendant houses, the young Sicarius began martial training as soon as he was old enough to grasp a sword, as is the way in Talassari nobility. As a result, his skill in swordplay is nothing short of remarkable. With strikes that crush like hammers, but flow like streams, he can unleash a fury of thrusts and slashes or lure a foe into a signature coup de grace, all but certain to wipe them out.

  • Skill type: Active.
    Mana cost: 45/70/85/100 mana per use.
    Cooldown: 4/3/2/1 seconds.
    In its passive state, Sicarius has an 8/16/24/32% chance to strike twice in a single blow, gaining 100% attack speed for 2 attacks. When used, Sicarius will do pure damage equal to the difference between the sum of Sicarius’s Strength, Agility, and Movement Speed and his target’s, replacing his normal attack damage.


Skill 2: Battle-Forged Heroes
As his tale of victories grew ever longer, Sicarius' name became a byword for victory, a legend forged in the bloody maelstrom of battle that would come to the ears of allies and foes far beyond the borders of Ultramar. As a result, Sicarius is often accompanied by the best warriors of the 2nd Company, and some say of the Ultramarines.

  • Skill type: Switchable Summon
    Cooldown: 20 seconds.
    Mana Cost: 120/150/220/270
    Casting range: 500/800/1100/1400
    Sicarius sends for a single Tactical Squad of 2/3/4/5 to come from his battle barge, landing in a drop pod that can knockback units 150/200/250 distance back.
    Maximum of 10 Marines at any time.
    Stats:

    • Health: 250/275/300/325
      Mana: 25/50/75/100
      Movement Speed: Same as Sicarius
      Attack damage: 14-16 Piercing Damage
      Armor: 0/1/2/3 Heavy Armor
      Abilities:


    • Scout: Available at Level 1
      Mana cost: 5/10/15/20 mana.
      Cooldown: 20 seconds.
      Gives the Marines 5/10/15/20% speed boost that wears off when they attack a target or 10/15/20/25 seconds has elapsed.


    • Counter Attack: Available at Level 2
      Cooldown: 15 seconds.
      When attacked, the Marines gain 40/50/60% damage for 4/5/6 seconds.


    • Infiltrate: Available at Level 3
      Mana cost: 45/55
      Duration: 25/30 seconds
      Cooldown: 35/40
      When activated within 350 range of trees, the Marines become invisible and using abilities will not reveal them, only attacking or taking damage will.


    • Tank Hunters: Available at Level 4:
      The Marines learn how to spot the weak points in even the most heavily armored targets and exploit them accordingly. For every point of armor a target has, the Marines deal 2 bonus damage to that target.

    </LI>


Skill 3: Mantle of the Suzerain
As High Duke of Talassar, Sicarius is well renowned for not only his battlefield prowess, but also the watchful benevolence with which he rules over his homeworld. As such, he has the benefit of the most skilled artificers and craftsmen to maintain and upgrade his equipment. Most beautiful of all is the Mantle of the Suzerain, which shields the blows he receives and self-regenerates itself.

  • Skill type: Passive/Active
    Mana Cost: See details.
    Passively absorbs up to 10/15/20/25% of Sicarius’s Health in damage. When the Mantle is not at full health or disabled, Sicarius can self-activate the repair mechanism on it, which will restore 1/2/3/4 points of the shield for every 2.5/2/1.5/1 points of mana used. When the maximum amount of damage has been absorbed, the shielding capabilities of the Mantle are disabled for 10/12/14/16 seconds and Sicarius will take damage as normal.


Ult: Orbital Strike Force
Drop Pod assaults are the ultimate weapon of terror and surprise, launched from an orbiting starship and aimed right at the heart of the foe. Scarcely have the smoldering hulls come to rest when their hatches blow clear, and the occupants disembark to wreak havoc on their wrong-footed and disoriented enemies.

  • Skill type: Active Spellbook with Two Choices
    Mana cost: 1st (125/175/225) 2nd (250/350/450)
    Cooldown: 1st (85/70/55) 2nd (170/140/110)
    Sicarius must return to an outpost or the main base to use this skill. He has a choice between two options in a spell book. From that point, he and any other units within 400 range, including allied heroes, will be airlifted/teleported up to the battle barge in orbit above.

    • The first choice involves a drop pod assault, not only with the units he teleported up, but also 1/2/3 squads of 3 Tactical Marines. Sicarius selects the point of entry, which will scatter 5/3/1%. Squads from this skill fill up Sicarius’s summon cap, and if marines are already summoned, then they will be unsummoned to make room for the new units.


    • The second choice replaces the assault of units with an orbital bombardment on an area. This bombardment will not scatter, but his pod still will. Fires 1/2/3 lances in a random spot 400 range within Cato’s entry point, each doing 150/175/200 pure damage, and then Cato’s pod will land in the vicinity of the strikes.

    </LI>


Last edited by Glycine on Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:50 am; edited 8 times in total
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Kiba[dok] on Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:10 pm

this looks interesting
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:54 am

just so you know, im not 100% focused atm, headache, tired etc. but these are my first impressions:

innate: rights of battle but ms. it works

first: terrible terrible skills XD high manacost rediculous (potential) drawbacks, disables his attack, all for 10% of their current hp.

second: (this is mostly a number issue)
whats your reasoning on the hp? his summons are in nearly all aspects worse than normal lane creeps
btw, lane creep ms is 325
scouts move too fast, and the pinnning doesnt seem terribly effective (numberwise)
assault marines, tactical, and dev marines are good... numberwise
overall: i cant do scaling base attack times (wihtout doing 4 units per spawn, and thats more effort than its worth)
the reduced damage to fortified seems thrown in there only cause you dont like summons destroying outposts (its a valid reason, but find anothe way to do it, other than 'because i can' - and i can still have 8 devs fire krak missles at an outpost and destroy it way quicker than current honorguard)
think about the devastator's missles. they both do increased damage, and one must be on. so why do they both increase damage?

third: good concept, poor implementation on the regen part. people *will* complain if they are forced to spend mana to regenerate it

the ult: i actually like, however i cant do modular cooldowns (and modular manacosts would be a bitch to the player if they dont realise they cant afford it) unless the type is chosen on cast (like a spellbook with the two options and a linked cooldown)

overall: he lacks... focus. he wants to support (innate), 1v1 (first), push(second), tank (third) and initiate (ult)

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:09 am

Aight, I see some of your points, but I'll counter.

Innate: You sort of glanced over the whole attack speed thing. Take another look?

First skill: It's not so terrible if you think how much 10% of a hero's health actually is. It'll add 200-300 damage to one strike at full, and while I'd rather make it 10% of their max health, I try not to blatantly make skills that are OP. A 1.4x multiplier isn't that bad, if you try and compare damages.

Say Cato and Bloodthirster are the same level, same attack of 100, same health of 2200. If Cato triumphs, he does 100 + 220 damage. If Bloodthirster triumphs, he does 140 damage for one attack. Plus it works synergistically with the third skill.

Second skill: His summons are worse in all aspects than normal creeps because they have abilities, they can move around unfettered by creep pathing, and you had a major brain fart when you made summons for heroes in the map.

And why should I find another reason when my reason is perfectly valid? As is now, the Attack on Cato's summons is ridiculous and they rape outposts hard. You're not buffing the health nor the attack of outposts anytime soon, so I wanted to ensure that a Cato cannot have the first major outpost down by 10 minutes.

Yes, you can have 8 Devs fire Krak missiles, and I'll have to change something about that.

Third skill. HAHAHAHAHAHA, that's funny grass. People will complain if they have to use mana for ANY skill. It's a time-delay mana shield that doesn't take your mana immediately, and you can have more control over it. Considering you only need 200 mana to get 400 points of shield at level 4, and Cato will easily have that much mana, I don't see where your complaint is. People have other skills that use mana too, you know, and I don't see them complaining when they need to wait for it to regen.

In a more serious note, the % of mana used when the shield overloads to regenerate it has to be activated. It won't just take your mana without asking. And considering Cato's total mana pool, 35% of his mana comes out to be like 250-350 mana at end-game, which isn't a terrible cost to absorb 600-800 points of damage.

Ult: The type is chosen at cast, if I didn't elaborate that.


Overall: I'd say your perspective is skewed. He doesn't want to individually do any of those things separately. They all work together in his role as a tank/pusher. The innate, second skill, and ult all directly help push, but the first and the third skill help him weaken and scare off heroes while tanking more blows for the waves he's currently pushing. I don't see any lack of focus when I look at the big picture, although numbers are an issue with the second skill.

If a pusher gets stonewalled by either AoE casters or DPS monsters, they should have some method of recourse like any other hero has. It does not make them by definition OP to be able to counterattack hero types that would have an advantage over it, because he can't do it indefinitely and consistently as if he were a true counter. And maybe that's where you see that lack of focus, but I didn't want to remake him into another type of hero. He was a pusher to begin with, and I'd rather have him stay that way, albeit in a more complex way.

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:32 am

0: oh no, i saw the ias. my comment stands

1: first, bad example Razz when is cato *ever* going to have greater str and agi than the bloodthirster Razz unless theres a huge level gap or thirster just cant play, cato will always lose that one
anyway. it also disables you attack for 3 seconds. (and unless you have *no* str/damage items, you would have done more than 10% of their current hp in 3 seconds - even in your example) and it costs a ridiculous ammount of mana for an 'orb-like' skill

2: the reason i dont like the 'because i can' random restriction on the summons is because if something is imbalanced, you should try to actually fix the problem instead of throwing random restrictions in there.
(this goes for everything, not just this example - like the banning of items for certain heroes, if its too good on the hero, then fix the item, dont restrict it)
if the summons are too powerful vs buildings, you need to actually fix that issue instead of randomly restricting them vs fortified (which would affect siege creeps and any other fortified armor)
and, so you know, piercing already only does 35% to foritified, and normal damage only does 70% to fortified.
for creeps that are alot weaker than the lane creep, shouldnt that be enough?

3: my bad, i thought that the regen on the shield was automatic once it ran out.
however: if he has 1 point left in the shield, itll cost .5 mana to regen 1 hp, while if it has 0, itll cost 35% of his max.
why?

4: again, my bad, but where it says "From that point, he and any other units within 400 range, including allied heroes, will be airlifted/teleported up to the battle barge in orbit above. From there, Sicarius has a choice to make." makes it seem like he choses which part to use after he's already cast it.


comparing the two:
he has the same mobility and summon power (prolly... i havnt mathed anything for them...)
but he is much more offensivly oriented now (ms/ias over armor for the aura, and a direct damage 'orb')

its not bad, but please plase change the first skill Razz
and im not 100% sold on the armor... but im sure ill get used to it.
and the summons need to be tweeked some more imo.

oh! also, damage on the ult... did you *entirly* think that through? Razz it does 150/400/750

also, point of interest. i halved the hp on his summons, and halved their bonus damage. i think the real problem is their magic damage

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:55 pm

*facepalm*

Normal damage: 70% to Fortified
Magic damage: 50% to Fortified

Does anyone else see a problem with this? Power weapons do less than normal blades to buildings? Trim down Normal damage to 40%?

Made various changes, and yes, I did overlook the ult, but it seems fine to me. Puts another limit on his pushing ability early.

First skill: Added movement speed to it as a modifier, took out the enemy multiplier, and made it such that the skill can't be used, but he can still attack.

Second skill: Grass, while it's my job to fix it, it's also your job to give suggestions on how to fix it. I know you like to put up the smokescreen of not being focused enough, but you're supposed to give constructive criticism that doesn't involve making creators go back alone and try to think up of something. All I saw was a lecture on how to fix something in general, not anything relating to the summons.

First off, fix normal damage. The creeps aren't meant to be as good as their current counterparts, for one. Second, their abilities make them much better than normal creeps. Third, they're not supposed to tank things. At all. xD;

Third Skill: It's the same principle with bending something, Grass. If you stress it to the breaking point, it can still reform back to its original state, but if you pass that point, it takes a lot more to put it back together. Glass, metal, pieces of armor, shield generators, all follow the same pattern. That's why it's not a mana shield.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:16 pm

first skill: its easiest to make it an autocast orb effect spell. just for mechanical reasons. its looking better tho. movespeed doesnt need to be a factor.
also, 6 seconds is a very low cooldown for a potential of 20% of their max life.
increase the high-end cooldowns a bit, and maby reduce the damage slightly, and it should be good.
but im still not 100% on the stat comparison. i can see the flavor behind it (kinda), but not its practicality in-game.
i dunno

second: if i had an idea on how to fix them, i would tell you Razz
but atm they dont look bad.

third: because it makes sense like that in the real world doesnt mean that it this game ahs to follow that exactly Razz
it makes no sense to have the skill require a larger manacost to recharge because its completly depleated.

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:55 pm

Movement speed is actually something that will give him the edge against most character, since his innate helps with that. Because here's how the matchups work out:

Strength Primary, Agility Secondary Tossup based on movement speed.
Strength Primary, Intelligence Secondary Cato wins.
Agility Primary, Strength Secondary Tossup based on movement speed.
Agility Primary, Inteligence Secondary Cato wins.
Intelligence Primary, Strength Secondary Cato wins.
Intelligence Primary, Agility Secondary Cato wins.

It by no means is bad and I think I'll nerf it some more.

And about the armor. For a skill that can absorb 800 damage, there needs to be a drawback if it's going to cost little mana.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grapes_On_Drapes on Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:44 am

I hope everyone is aware of the bug that is with Cato's Honor Guard spell.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:18 pm

Updated.

Nerfed the summons some more, made Tempest Blade somewhat better, fixed Mantle, clarified Strike Force.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:37 pm

Ha ok the tempest blade and summons are much better.
However you desperately need to reduce the manacost on tempest blade and make it a toggleable orb effect.
Also instead of two attacks can we give him 100% ias for 2 attacks? Then we don't trigger the xooldown on the orb when he gets the 'second attack'

And I still think you need to rework the mantle. Possibly with some more team play aspects to it

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:21 pm

Lol, Grass. That works for the blade.

And No. xD The mantle is not a teamplay piece of equipment. I gave them movement speed, so I don't plan to give them armor or damage reduction. Not going to happen. It's his personal suit of armor, and unless you have any creative ideas, I'm not exactly going to revamp it.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Fairemont on Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:26 pm

Make it glow, give him 300 stats, and then make 50 clones of himself. Problem solved.


Actually, make all clones hostile to all, even themselves, that way its just more fun.

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:24 pm

That, while interesting, is hard to do. ^^;
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Fairemont on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:25 pm

The glowing could be hard. the rest, not so much. xD

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:38 pm

Oh, the glowing is easy, if I recall properly. It's the whole making clones without crashing people's computers that is troublesome.

Oh! Speaking of which. I know your computer isn't coming back anytime soon, but I'd like to request something of you.

Using a computer program or sketching something and scanning it, could you design the terrain as you would prefer it? The content of the bases should remain the same, but I want to see your preferred placement of things in the map. Without a doubt, we'll need more creep camps and secret passageways.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Fairemont on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:55 pm

Uhhhmmmmm...

I dunno... I could like... make the map bigger I suppose, and then like.... add more stuff between the lanes and what not... Idk. =\

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:15 pm

Does it look like I'm here telling you what to do? xD

Go and do whatever you want! Be imaginative and creative.

The map size could be a little bigger, but there should be a lot more stuff between in the lanes. More passages, hide the runes a little better, secret caves which lead places, etc, etc.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:25 pm

Then change the skill Razz

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:36 pm

What exactly are you talking about? oo
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:33 am

Mantle, change it if you refuse to rework it

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:09 pm

Why would I change the skill? xD It's perfectly fine as is, and I did take your earlier comments into account. He'll already be a good pusher as is, so what more do you want from him? He still has summons, they still do damage, still has bombardment and most of all has mobility in spades, both on foot and across the map.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:50 am

Fixed and Updated.
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Glycine on Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:14 pm

*bumped for comment*
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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

Post by Grass Hopper on Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:42 pm

What did you update?

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Re: [HERO] Cato Sicarius, Master of the Watch

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