Remake of laning, bases, and terrain

Zebio brought up a good point, in that it's probably better to do something with the bases. I think a change in terrain and pathing would also be quite good.

So Cell and I came up with three ideas, so far.







Mine is the first, Cell's are the second and third.

Mine:

Purple: HQ
Blue: Unit spawn buildings
Red/green: Outposts. Number of dots determine the number of cannons there. Big dot is equal to 4.
Grey: Neutral
Yellow: Creep camps

I had a complicated system of pathing, where you could control the pathing of creeps from outposts (see blue lines for optional paths) but I'll save it for later comment.

I'll let cell elaborate on his, because his two maps are radically different.

oh dear god o.o

it would be easier if the lane splits just split automatically, instead of toggling.
(that would either cause conflicts in-team, or require a controller for the creeps)

and kk, i think i figured out a way to work your idea, assuming automatic wave splitting.

however, it will require a ton more creeps, or a really small amount per wave

k, first one.

Blue: Main HQ and fountain
Green: Heavily fortified outposts (work just like our current ones)
Red: Checkpoints using that one suggested defense idea that uses units instead of towers. They each have a camp that when taken takes the checkpoint. Small dots represent small checkpoints, with like 2-3 units. or 5 if that isn't enough. Big dots are ones with a full squad, so around 10 units.
Black lines: Walls
yellow: forest creep.

second one.

green: bases (how they work now). Big is heavily fortified bases, small is little outposts.
black lines: walls
blue line: forest paths/river
Red: forest creep, the big blobs being something like another ork faction's fort or whatever you want.

It all meets up into a gigantic killing field lane wise. Taking the middle base lets your guys push on into the enemy fortress (represented by the walls and outposts inside it).
You can put walls on the lanes inside the forts if you want.

I think it would be cool if something like this happened: Middle lane is more of the standard fight, where creeps meet and there is hardly any ways to gank/be ganked but allows for a more open fight while top/bot are more of the opposite, giving a lot of areas to gank/be gank with forest line, some hills, etc. This way it's not the same throughout the map, gankville!

Maybe heroes could spend some gold to send extra normal creeps to a lane of their choosing. Like spending 100 gold to send 2 extra normal creeps to top lane for 5 minutes, giving an alert to the enemies that X units are heading to push top. Then that lane would have a 3 minutes * number of extra units spawned, or something, to prevent having a lot of extra units on the map.

Hm we already have something along those lines.. You can hire units from your base, which are sent to every lane. The other team isn't notified and has to either summon creeps to meet the threat, do it themselves, or let the outposts deal with it.

Really? I haven't played the map so I wouldn't know this... And these aren't different creeps you hire, they are normal creeps that get redistributed for extra cannon fodder to help push/defend.

Well depending on your honour, they get buffed hp/armour/damage etc. They come with unique abilities. Such as the Banshee, who has an AoE scream.

Btw, with the laning. Keep it simple >_> having 20+ lanes in one AoS is a bit hectic.. And also pointless. Some of the new laning ideas would making ganking a bitch sometimes. Please dont make this map as awkward as SMotA :/

The second map suggestion would be good though. A ganking ffa in mid, with a slightly safer zone as you tread deeper into enemy territory.

13loodraven wrote:
Btw, with the laning. Keep it simple >_> having 20+ lanes in one AoS is a bit hectic.. And also pointless. Some of the new laning ideas would making ganking a bitch sometimes. Please dont make this map as awkward as SMotA :/

Thank you blood >.>

K.I.S.S.

<_< *coughfagcough*

Keep it simple stupid...

<_< Suuure

Pfft.

Simplicity is a poor man's excuse for laziness.

And ERGH! Why the hell are you all talking about ganking for? Having more outposts spread out makes chasing harder, not ganking. If you gank properly, then you should get your kill regardless of whether there are more lanes or outposts.

And the neutral outposts can be set in forested areas, if that pleases you. >>

Also, there are 5 main lanes, not 20. >> I said 24 different lane combinations, which relates to the switching concept.

@Grass: You never proved to me how bad a switch system could be. The message I got from you is, "It looks complicated. I don't want to code it. Throw up BS smokescreen saying that idiots can mess up a game, while being redundant."

If you have a problem with idiots being able to switch a neutral outpost, then don't vote down the idea on that failing, try and work with me to figure out how to make it or even the map layout palatable. You gave no objections to the layout originally, only to the wave switching.

no, simplicity is a good design path.
complexity, more often than not, is only there for complexity's sake.
and simple does not mean bad/stupid/boring/flawed. Simple means not complicated.

and gly, i dont need to prove anything to you. You need to prove to me why it should be how you want it.
Toggled lanes are a bad idea because it becomes extremlely easier to disrupt your *own* team, while having little potential to do any substantial good.
ie: lets throw away a creep wave on their towers!
I could see it doing good if a single wave would have any real impact on an enemy outpost if it was unattended... but all that's happening is that your causing both your and your enemy's outposts to get attacked, undefended, by creep waves. You send your creeps at your enemy, where they (likely) wont have any; yet at the same time, you remove any defense your creeps gave to that lane/outpost. There isnt enough worth to be justified.

and having a toggle switch, btw, is prolly easier to do than having an auto switch. So dont go putting words in my mouth, please.

EDIT:

Glycine wrote:If you have a problem with idiots being able to switch a neutral outpost, then don't vote down the idea on that failing, try and work with me to figure out how to make it or even the map layout palatable. You gave no objections to the layout originally, only to the wave switching.

The most obvious way of fixing this is by... you know... not including it.
The layout is fine, and i like it, but the toggled lanes is a bad idea

Zzz. Is it really that unobvious? More lanes means the creeps are spread out more (we do not want more creeps to match more lanes >_>) and as such, will have more vision over the map. Say your a pissweak hero, and your farming up. Then (where jungle should be) an enemy hero passes through a lane, you get the vision and bail before the ganker can gank. Point being the outposts get good vision down the lane(s) without creeps.

True, chasing would be harder. Ok, Cell, Gly. Justify the reasons behind more lanes and we can work from there. But here are my negative points:

Spread out creeps: Heroes become less effective at farming, and will resort to ganking for gold, which has been made harder also.
Vision and stuff: Initial post.
Lanes: Just more crap to push >_>
Not noob friendly: Heaps of lanes will confuse the shit out of a player whos only played 40kaos a few times.

We do not always need complexity. Being complex gives more room for mistakes: eg glitches and bugs. Also, it would lag the game more. Our tweaked AoS laning is fine, it just needs to be worked on. Not expanded.

*EDIT*

And by the way, a lane is a lane only while creeps stay on that path. As soon as they branch off, they are on a different lane, or 'sub' lane if you wish.

*EDIT#2*

If your to create a fancy looking map suggestion on iscribble or something, please include a key on the map >_>