[Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**

but i feel it is necessary to even better portray a black hole plus it add an unpredictabel aspect which i think will add a nice challengin aspect to it all i msaying is you stated ur primary concern was its opness (cause even at 4 secs a 4 sec incapacitate is well wroth it) so change the numebrs but i want to see what will happen with this randomness or as you jstu caleld it on kharn "risk"

lmao theres a diff betwen your skill doing multiple effects, and a skill possibly doing things that arent good for your team (ex in the kharn thread)

and well, i could reduce the duration to 3-5, but then it doestn make a noticable effect

so do 4-6 then at 4 its meh and at 6 itsgood but not op and still keeps its randomness to represent the unpredcitability of a black hole

(and u stated it was bad because it could potentially be weak so if using a skill that could potentially be weka or strong jsut liek kahrn attacking allies (weak) or enemies(strong) how is it not risk?

because no matter what you do, kharn will get buffs, but you have to *know when to use it*
this skill, knowing when to use it wont mean anything if u get a highblind-lowdrag

even so again using ur own premises my skill will always blind and drag and u still have to know when to use it because regardless it will ALWAYS drag within 4 secs for at least 4 secs so u plan it according to that (for isntance maybe as a fight begins behind them so if they run u etheric tempest them back or in the center with the assistance of some1 to slow to keep them in AoE) jstu liek with kharn the ideal tiem to use it is when its jstu you and a hero BUT still if a creep wave coem or he runs to an outpost u might spend then exe 10 seconds attacking the outpost and creeps so they both have risk and both are random in what ends up happening but both have predetermined effects

yeah, your skill will always drag, but it may become usless just by being the skill... while you can anticipate creep waves and outposts.

and knowing when to use it will make it emesly powerful just by nature of being an aoe disable, but then thats when the skill could kick in, and become usless (which cant be avoided by player skill)

and even with player skill when u essentially have no control of ur hero (.4 secs of selectability) it can still turn out to be a bad ult

ur skill can as well become useless because even with .4 secs of controllability theres still a chance he attacks a creep or outpost even for an instant and anyone know even if u miss one attack and give them a little advance is not an ideal situation so both our skills are random in the sense that once its desiganted effect goes off there is a chance it could be very useful or very useless

palyer skill of timing and positioning
if it was (will either attack allies or enemies) then i would agree with you. because it has a chance on cast to become useless... but as he can attack both in one go, then its up to player skill to make sure he doenst

but no ammount of player skill can give them a longer duration drag

lmao u put so much faith into player skill when with only a .4 sec selectable time and u state in his ult he becomes unallies which means he could attack allies on top of it as i stated in his post even if u get a right click off in tht .4 secs you now have to follow the path the computer generates for you which almost guarantess a mile long hike around creeps which would in turn waste ur ult and allow them to get away due to the computer find the best way to creep block you as it so commonly does

because it is attack eitehr alleis or enemies if he becomes unallied (meaning no longer allied to anyone) he can attack anyone and can teherefore attack an ally creep as soon as u cast it then u get .4 secs to right click the enem but NO amount of skill can prevent him from taking a ridiculous path should a wave of creeps come because u can barely control him as is there is no way any amount of skill could direct a proper path through creeps under those circumstances so both our ults have a risk og being very effective or very useless yet your ult is ok and mine isnt....

ok, lets put this situation

your... lets say karandras.. you want to attack an enemy hero. what do you do?

nothing cause i dont liek to play karandras stop tryin to situationalize it either way both our ults require a good sense of timing both our ults will do their effect 100% of the time both our ults can be very bad or very good yet you say mine is bad and yours is good when fact of the matter is both of them rely on little palyer skill u arldy agreed to that in the kahrn thread u agreed that in the .6 secs a ridiculous path will be drawn for you which makes it jsut as unpredictable as mine

how does your ultimate potentially being useless as an inherant trait of the skill make it rely on player skill to be usefull?

and i was trying to make the point that as a melee hero, u generally point click on an enemy hero, and *dont* walk miles around, but generally right at them

Skill 2: Gaze Of Death
fluff: The nightbringers' eyes blaze with dark fire draining the life of all around him
effect: in a 200/300/400/500 aoe the nightbringer has a 20/25/30/35% to take 10% of a units current hp and add it to his own life the effect can only hit a hero once every 8 seconds but goes off every second on creeps

This isn't a very productive passive. Just sit there and regain health over time? That's what items are for. This spell should keep the basis effect but activate when the hero slays an enemy unit. Additionally you could throw in an effect like: If a hero is slain, the chance to absorb life from a target increases by 15%.

That's just my opinion of course... Right now the passive holds no real... purpose to fulfill.

as you controlling him no you dont but when the computer controls your paths becuase u barely have enough time to select your hero you do walk quite a few miles and what are you talking bout neitehr of our ults can have any true advantageous efect from a skillfull plyer even a skillful player has ust enough time to target your hero and not make a proper path and onyl a skillfull palyer can determin an apporx best time to use my ult they are both unpredictable and risk rittled but can be advantageous still

and xeno we alrdy found a better gaze of flame that might even be renamed Fear Of Death its earlier in the posts i jsut havent changed cause we havent come to a conclusion

lets assume we have max possible skill a person can have (the skill is limited by the game)
then a person using you ult would be perfect, but then suddenly the skill fails out and gives max blind, min drag...

then a person uses my skill, calculates no creeps/enemy heroes (can see all dots on the map, the waves dont spawn, and theres nothing incomming) his in the middle of a lane. the skill iteself wont screw the player over, because theres nothing in the skill that suddenly sucks if chance favors it to be that way

sure there is he perfectly pans it uses his .4 secs to right click someone now that someone breaks LoS no skill in the world will make u chase him again because ur cahr jstu stopped chasing as it will do automatically when u right click and they break LoS

yes, thats why u DONT use it in the forrest, tahts PART of the perfectly planned cast. and thats not a skill screwing over the caster, its another player doing it

lmao grass look at ur map it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to not use it with a forest 12 secs away there is forest EVERYWHERE

12 seconds is a slow moving when kharn has +20% ms, and ur slowed by 20%

lmao even so its not hard to get to a forest even with all that u can still succesfulyl get to a forest and could still succesfully break LoS which NO amount of skill can prevent therefore NO amount of skill can prevent you from being screwed over

Why are you guys even debating this? Wasn't it agreed this skill would fit better on the Dragon anyway?

(And yeah, I completely misunderstood it before then.)

also, kharn is insisting on a worse case possible scenario. why not think of what would averagely happen (he kills a few creeps, then locks onto a hero, ally or enemy)

Grass Hopper wrote:also, kharn is insisting on a worse case possible scenario. why not think of what would averagely happen (he kills a few creeps, then locks onto a hero, ally or enemy)

(Kharn use punctuation marks so I can read your posts easier)

So... the debate is about a movement rendering spell that could be used in the forest region? Are you guys debating unbalanced or overpowered?

The best way to deal with something like this ultimately is to have a high reduction effect but shorter duration.

because ur entire debate against my skill as been when its at its worst......... u contradict yourself so frequently grass ur whole arguement has been based on my ult performing at its worst and urs performing at its best

lets assume we have max possible skill a person can have (the skill is limited by the game)
then a person using you ult would be perfect, but then suddenly the skill fails out and gives max blind, min drag...

then a person uses my skill, calculates no creeps/enemy heroes (can see all dots on the map, the waves dont spawn, and theres nothing incomming) his in the middle of a lane. the skill iteself wont screw the player over, because theres nothing in the skill that suddenly sucks if chance favors it to be that way

here my skill performs at its worst while urs is at its best....