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[Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
+5
walt_jabsco
Grass Hopper
DeusMechanicus
Fromundaman
Betrayer_kharn
9 posters
Page 6 of 7
Page 6 of 7 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
and no i was jsut stating i find it entertianing that my risky ult is bad but his risky ult is good
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 33
Location : Clearwater, Florida
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
im saying how your skill could be ruined by chance happening inside the skilsl mechanics, while mine cant be ruined by a chance happening in the skills mechanics, only player actions.
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
no lol i already showed how yours can be ruined by chance it can be ruined if the computer forges a faulty path for you or makes you do an unintended action in taht time u cnat control him how is taht not cahnce?
see again a contradiction mine has chance because of the skill mechanics making it random so something in the game causes it to go awry while urs has chance again in its skill mechanics because the computer (and in game aspect not palyer skill controlled) could perform and unintended and unwanteda ction/path but then you say yours has no chacne computer related...
see again a contradiction mine has chance because of the skill mechanics making it random so something in the game causes it to go awry while urs has chance again in its skill mechanics because the computer (and in game aspect not palyer skill controlled) could perform and unintended and unwanteda ction/path but then you say yours has no chacne computer related...
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
- Posts : 422
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 33
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
lets try this again:
your skill can fail because the *skill* gives you a crap effect
my skill can fail because of *other players* dodging the hero, or getting bad pathing
yours is an inherant fault in the skill
mine is an inherant fault with... wc3...
your skill can fail because the *skill* gives you a crap effect
my skill can fail because of *other players* dodging the hero, or getting bad pathing
yours is an inherant fault in the skill
mine is an inherant fault with... wc3...
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
Grass Hopper wrote:lets try this again:
your skill can fail because the *skill* gives you a crap effect
my skill can fail because of *other players* dodging the hero, or getting bad pathing
yours is an inherant fault in the skill
mine is an inherant fault with... wc3...
This must be where the last 6 pages of arguments started:
Grass Hopper wrote:as a general rule: avoid using random chance (numbers) to balance (unless its in theme like warphead )
Anyways - I agree with Grass's ability concept. It's best to stick with player actions than to dive into random chance.
Xenostalker- Contributor
- Posts : 47
Join date : 2009-10-05
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
lmao grass mine "fails" because the somputer could choose bad variables
ur skill "fails" because again the computer chooses bad variable (wrong path/unintended action not palyer influenced at all because they lose all influence after .4 scs)
yet your skill is ok and mine is not and they have this same "inherent" flaw
u said urself
ur skill "fails" because again the computer chooses bad variable (wrong path/unintended action not palyer influenced at all because they lose all influence after .4 scs)
yet your skill is ok and mine is not and they have this same "inherent" flaw
u said urself
OR GETTING BAD PATHING that has nothing to do with any players that is an inherent flaw in the skill because it gives control to the computer
my skill can fail because of *other players* dodging the hero, or getting bad pathing
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
- Posts : 422
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Age : 33
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
again xeno my quarrel isnt with his concept but with his contradiction of his concept he states randmoness is bad and yet kharns new ult has its own inherent randomness
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
oh, and the same fault applies to *any melee hero* you chase a hero, and he runs into the fog (unless your a good palyer, the hero stops)
bad pathing is an inherant flaw in WARCARFT 3 not a flaw in the skill
agian, the same bad pathing applies to ANY hero who choses to attack another one, it doesnt only apply to this skill
the differenece is your super buffed with this skill, and have slightly less control over where you go
bad pathing is an inherant flaw in WARCARFT 3 not a flaw in the skill
agian, the same bad pathing applies to ANY hero who choses to attack another one, it doesnt only apply to this skill
the differenece is your super buffed with this skill, and have slightly less control over where you go
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
but you are allowing your skill to easily succumb to this inherent flaw therefore by increasing its chacne to succumb to an inherent flaw is that not a falw in itself?
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
Betrayer_kharn wrote:again xeno my quarrel isnt with his concept but with his contradiction of his concept he states randmoness is bad and yet kharns new ult has its own inherent randomness
You could defend your point with DotA's Chaos Knight target ability in which the stun is random between very low and very long duration - but you could counterargue at the same time by identifying the Chaos Knight has the only random ability in the entire game.
Xenostalker- Contributor
- Posts : 47
Join date : 2009-10-05
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
no, because i offer alternatives to this flaw (a manner of controling the hero)
you offer no way to fix the flaw in your skill
edit: and chaos knight gets at least 2 seconds which is average. his skill only gets better with chance, wheras kharns gets only worse with chance(im talking bout the blind duration here)
you offer no way to fix the flaw in your skill
edit: and chaos knight gets at least 2 seconds which is average. his skill only gets better with chance, wheras kharns gets only worse with chance(im talking bout the blind duration here)
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
Grass Hopper wrote:no, because i offer alternatives to this flaw (a manner of controling the hero)
you offer no way to fix the flaw in your skill
edit: and chaos knight gets at least 2 seconds which is average. his skill only gets better with chance, wheras kharns gets only worse with chance(im talking bout the blind duration here)
That's even a better point towards the negative effects of Kharn's ability.
Xenostalker- Contributor
- Posts : 47
Join date : 2009-10-05
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
but that second part is really irrelvant
the fact is (ive never palyed) but does that randomness make him utterly useless or more entertaining and in a sense can make him better then he could be but at the sae time that randomness doesnt drive people away from the hero if anythign it makes people go more towards it for the fact that it could be extremely powerful
the fact is (ive never palyed) but does that randomness make him utterly useless or more entertaining and in a sense can make him better then he could be but at the sae time that randomness doesnt drive people away from the hero if anythign it makes people go more towards it for the fact that it could be extremely powerful
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
- Posts : 422
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
Shouldn't that be argued in Kharne's thread then AND doesn't Dragon already have this ability + it fits him more thematically? This discussion shouldn't be happening, and even less here.
Fromundaman- Moderator
- Posts : 910
Join date : 2009-07-24
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
and how does it get worse? 4 seconds is not long at all and thats worst case if we r going on average then average would be 2-3 secs about and in that aspect it gets barely worse (1 sec more) or abrely better (1 sec less)
4 seconds of blind i hardly worse even so so i make it 1-3 then 3 is hardly bad at all 3 seconds of delay is nothing but it could be 1 second and this encourages you to use it more in the prospect of it being very useful or semi useful it will never be as bad as u procalim it to bo
and again we alrdy stated even with a ,4 second control there is still no solution to the inherent flaw of it opening kharn up to the inherent flaw of bad pathing more oftne then necessary because there is still mroe time to fall into this flaw then there is to get out
4 seconds of blind i hardly worse even so so i make it 1-3 then 3 is hardly bad at all 3 seconds of delay is nothing but it could be 1 second and this encourages you to use it more in the prospect of it being very useful or semi useful it will never be as bad as u procalim it to bo
and again we alrdy stated even with a ,4 second control there is still no solution to the inherent flaw of it opening kharn up to the inherent flaw of bad pathing more oftne then necessary because there is still mroe time to fall into this flaw then there is to get out
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
also fro fromu we arent designing dragon and we decided that eating a star fits dragon this isnt eating a star this is summoning a collapsing star so there are only similar in the fact that they both contain start
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
- Posts : 422
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Age : 33
Location : Clearwater, Florida
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
- Posts : 422
Join date : 2009-04-21
Age : 33
Location : Clearwater, Florida
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
so as i stated if we are no longer applying deus' hypothesis (if we did the dragons ult couldnt work) then my ult is still viable.... and i already stated i will rename gaze of falme and make it Fear of death then make it that larger lifesteal he suggested just not as powerful
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
I'm not gonna lie, I still dislike either of these ults... Not my decision, but this star/black hole thing is something which is going to make people scratch their heads and wonder where the hell we got it from.
Hell, I'm still doing it, and I read through the last 10 pages XD
That being said, it's not my hero, so meh.
Hell, I'm still doing it, and I read through the last 10 pages XD
That being said, it's not my hero, so meh.
Fromundaman- Moderator
- Posts : 910
Join date : 2009-07-24
Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
its not a star anymore and we ahve already established where its from......
c'tans have the ability to warp time and space so out c'tan does such and summons a temporary black hole hell if we truly want we can jstu make it a time/space rift that opens up no black hole involved
which again we have establishedas within the realm of power in a c'tan
so the blind would be while its opening and then the final drag in effect would be after it has opened
c'tans have the ability to warp time and space so out c'tan does such and summons a temporary black hole hell if we truly want we can jstu make it a time/space rift that opens up no black hole involved
which again we have establishedas within the realm of power in a c'tan
so the blind would be while its opening and then the final drag in effect would be after it has opened
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
I realize it's POSSIBLE, and I saw how it was argued. Nightbringer doesn't really invoke thought of time/space mastery though.
I know it's pretty much set in stone now and going to be implemented, I'm just voicing my opinion.
I know it's pretty much set in stone now and going to be implemented, I'm just voicing my opinion.
Fromundaman- Moderator
- Posts : 910
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
itsn ot set in stons lol and to be fair we dont know what he invokes jsut what we are told he invokes tere is alot of things in this map thhat arent necessarily said to happen (e.g. your tomb spyder and his adaptive technolongy) but we use it to make the aos more interesting
Betrayer_kharn- Contributor
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Re: [Incomplete] Nightbringer the C'Tan of Death**
Okay... But I am just stating my personal opinion on this one move... That is all.
Fromundaman- Moderator
- Posts : 910
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