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List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:38 am

i dont like spirit of the martyr as a spellbook. i do think that faith points should do something by themselves however

i dont like the idea of the random ward following a sanctioned psyker around.
now if you could translate it into a random psychic power, that would be more ok

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:34 pm

I was just looking at the witch hunter codex to see exactly how faith points were used and tried to apply it to Celestine as she is now. The presence of multiple acts of faith makes her a more rounded character than just using Spirit to get 600 damage off her strikes. That's pretty much all she is now, you realize.

And since I explained that Psychic Ward is an actual psychic power, just give it a duration and cooldown and it works. We'll still need to number balance, but that's what we do.
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:36 pm

yes, and using your faith points to go from one roar to, damage, regen, OR armor... doesnt help her out any.

i can reduce the damage boost that she gets with spirt, but splitting the spell into three different is the wrong way to go about it.


and about ward... can we make it an aoe barier? cause spellblock is... fickle to work with, especially as an aoe effect.
barrier would be something like: blocks the next X spell damage

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:13 pm

How does it not help her out any? What exactly is help in her case?

I'm not trying to nerf her, if you haven't noticed. I wanted to give her more versatility from that one skill. If she needs to regen quickly, she can activate that, or if she needs to tank an outpost for a push, she can activate armor.

As for ward, an aoe barrier would work well, but what if the spell shield was like a single-target buff extended to all units in the AoE? Like a mass Anti-spell shield?
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:18 pm

well, as it is, she gains damage, armor, and regen from a single skill, but you want to split it into three seperate skills.
im assuming you want to buff the numbers as well tho, and will they still use up all faith points?

and what do u mean by the single taret buff extended to all units?
if you want spell blocking, then thats inefficient unless coded, and it would be really wierd with the aoe thing... not saying i couldnt do it with some work, but spell shield by itself isnt that useful for actually blocking spells due to the nature of triggered spells vs amulet of spell block.

and by aoe barier, i meant like an aoe version of the terminators current active, so it casts that on all nearby units

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:13 pm

I split it up into 4 different skills, damage, armor, regen, and speeds. They still use faith points and the numbers are buffed.

In addition, I suggested the mechanics of faith points be changed so that she can get them on kills and especially when she dies, as to not make her totally useless when the reincarnation takes all the points. In this way, we don't have to make Faith Points do something when there are so many skills that use them.

As for the spell ward, the barrier would work. I meant like an AoE cast of Anti-Magic Shield such that all units inside the AoE cast would gain that buff, but if that's too complicated, I don't mind. What would you consider for values?
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:01 pm

i think we both have the same idea, but are missing it XD

so, anti magic shield comes in two forms: magic imunity (dark eldar's innate) and magic damage block (current termi armor)

what im proposing (and you too, i think) is that each unit in the area has a damage block anti-magic shiled cast on them that blocs X magic damage
i would think somethign like 200/275/350/425 damage.


and for faith points: this skills still use all the faith points?
and im not sure i want to make faith points gained every kill (max level)

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:37 am

Ok. Going to start on the Eldar now. First up: Harlequin.

Dance will probably stay the same, as will holo suit. I really want to make use of her agility, though, instead of strength. Values on triggered evasion might go down, but Harlequin's kiss is going to get a major buff to make it really useful end-game. Cooldown might go up, but the damage done to heroes will be changed as to make it more useful.

It is, after all, a little absurd to think that a large monofilament wire running around your insides can only do a little damage. Especially since she's a semi-carry, she needs it to do more.
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:43 pm

so, numbers Razz
altho it functions like a melee storm bolt... pretty much, and does 500 damge isnt it?
isnt that enough? added to flip belts and dance (which is gona get a damage buff btw)

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:50 pm

Actually I think ~420 at max, and when you consider reduction, more like 300. The funny thing is that it doesn't improve her carrying ability all that much. What she can kill usually comes from Dance and Belt and when things start having 2000/3000 health, she can't do anything either because her auto-attack pales in comparison to either the armor or the spell damage of her target or they simply shrug off the dance damage and hit you for much, much harder.

I played a 2 hour game last night, and as soon as Cato (of all heroes, right) got 32 armor and a thunder hammer, he simply hit me enough times to go through holosuit and my triggered evasion while I could hardly do anything to him. Not that I'm relating it to thunder hammer, but when heroes get their end-game items and stats, Harle suddenly just loses a lot of her effectiveness as a Carry and simply runs around hoping not to get stunned or nuked, because if she does, she'll lose a lot of health.
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:29 pm

semi-carry! Very Happy

but i can increase the cooldown, reduce the manacost. and possibly buff its effects.
65 second cooldown, 2.75 second stun, 300/410/520 damage, 100 mana?
just random numbers. are they closer?

and really, you want her ult to do more damage when she has 2 other nukes?
and a stun+damage helps her 1)gank and build that early game and 2) provide a stun for later game so she can land her dps.

and please dont consider reduction when evaluating a nukes effectiveness Razz unless your going full mathcraft. but *all* nukes get reduced, so its unessecary to point out.

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:48 am

Lol, I don't mean to buff its effects in that way. The stun can even go down on heroes, for what I mean to do. I was going to mix in a % of life done with kiss, but that won't solve her problem in general.

If you can figure out another way to boost her damage, when she's so dependent on three nukes to do it, be my guest, Grass. She could even use a revamping of her innate.
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:59 am

cause the nukes are for early game, where late game you can function as a semi-carry.
semi-carry. shes not supposed to be able to dps everything into the ground, but be better at it than most heroes with comparable items. but not as effective as hard carries

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:31 pm

It's like Fuegan though. He's not even supposed to be DPS, but because he's a nuker and that doesn't pay off end-game, he turns into one. He's slightly more effective at it because of how much damage he can take compared to Harle, but I don't like the concept of nukes only really doing something early game. I mean, why'd we only make Ahriman's nuke scale?
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:47 pm

because nukes, by nature of being nukes (unless we make them weak early game - see ahriman) are powerful in the begining stages of the game. with 2-3 nukes able to kill most heroes.

If we make most nukes scale well into the late game *as well* as be as powerful as they are early game, then we make the inteligence nuker heroes more powerful than they should be.
most nukes still pack a decent punch when it comes to later game anyway

and harle can semi-carry cause of her innate and evasion Razz
as opposed to fuegan who only gets the tankiness, no skills give him dps.

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Glycine on Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:51 pm

Lol, Harle's innate will probably get a change. Then what? Evasion vs tankiness? I'd take being a tank anyday over evasion, because if it gets past evasion, it's going to hurt even more.
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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

Post by Grass Hopper on Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:52 pm

theres nothing wrong with fleet atm. but if you can think of something better im open to it

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Re: List of Imperium Balance Changes for .46

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